1. Why is this in Widnes Vikings section? 2. Plenty of reference to Union in decline in Saturdays Times (the Union bible)
There is a global pandemic on and everything is in decline apart from funeral business's and isolation retreats in peru
How many people watch the Wids these days ?
4 I think But I recently seen that Italy under 18s beat englans under 18s at union Nobody is mentioning crisis in their sport. In fact its all been glossed over and assigned to the history books. I also noted that despite everything their remains an abundance of public school representation in the England under 18 team at union. I also checked the fees at some of these schools like Millfield and Kirkham grammar, and Ampleforth, and Sedburgh college and Hartpury, they all cost a fortune. So what it creates if a false sense of outstanding ability They are not outstanding Simply privelaged
”there you go bringing class into it Dennis” The snobbery may still exist at the schoolboy level but the RU version of our “elite” SL is not underpinned by a reliance on social hierarchy. It is underpinned by (compared to the RFL / SLE) business acumen from another universe far, far away. The reason that clubs like the Wids still exist is basically twofold imho 1) because there are people who genuinely like playing the game and 2) because there are youngsters coming through the junior game who see club like the Wids as a potential steeping stone to bigger things within the game. Sadly since the early 1960’s when I started watching and playing League at the Bede’s the numbers playing have declined and the promotion path – certainly in England no longer exists – the pinnacle now seems to be a couple of years Burma’s holiday in Oz with the NRL.
I’ve not mentioned class It’s money. Subtle difference Also Can you name me a wids player who has used the wids as a stepping stone to union greatness – let’s say in the last 25 years. I doubt anyone would get their kids playing union to assist them to become great athletes
Ah, apologies, I mistook your references to public schools and privilege as a reference to class.
I guess you don’t share the general perception that the public school system is a manifestation of the wider class system, which is fair enough.
I’m not able to name a Wids player who went on to greater deeds but that is probably down to two things - I have no interest in the Wids and I now live in Hampshire and discussions about the Wids are fairly few and far between.
I’d also say that having checked what I wrote I can’t see where I actually mentioned anybody from the Wids going on to greater deeds.
These arguments/discussions are pointless, mainly because they are different sports.
Why does anybody bother to compare the two?
These arguments/discussions are pointless, mainly because they are different sports. Why does anybody bother to compare the two?
Because there are many similarities. It's not like comparing golf and tennis.
Rugby League and Union was the same sport until 1895, many elements like tackling, goal kicking and passing are retained in both sports. You have many examples of players having succesful careers in both codes that you simply don't get in other sports. Jonathan Davies and Jason Robinson being 2 of the best examples for both club and country.
I much prefer watching league, it was a hypothetical question. Given the recent financial struggles the club has found itself in, dropping down from SL, going part time and sadly having to scrap the academy.
The hypothetical part was would you rather watch Widnes forever being part time in the Championship or as a succesful full time side in the RU Premiership? RU does bring with it more TV money, sponsorship and international exposure. Hopefully neither will happen and we will get back in SL or at the very least into the top 2 or 3 sides in the Championship alongside the likes of Leigh and Featherstone, and get the crowds back up to approaching the 4k mark.
Notice RU is trying to set up a 12s tournament for August next year, their off season. Sponsorship in waiting looks massive. Wonder if any League players will be selected, that would put the cat amongst the pigeons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58476455
Plans have been unveiled for a new 12-a-side rugby competition proposed to take place in England next August.
The new tournament, World 12s, is intended to feature 192 of the world's best players, picked via auction to represent eight franchises.
World 12s Limited says the competition will take place over three weekends in a round-robin format before knockouts.
"World 12s is a natural evolution for rugby union," said the organisation's chairman, Ian Ritchie.
"We feel that this is a game for our changing, fast-paced world that can excite a global fanbase in the way that we have seen with the IPL [Indian Premier League] or most recently The Hundred in cricket."
Ritchie, formerly chief executive of the Rugby Football Union, is joined on World 12's board by former Welsh Rugby Union chairman Gareth Davies and former New Zealand Rugby Union chief executive Steve Tew.
It is intended that most players will be selected from Tier One nations but every franchise will be required to select at least two players from Tier Two nations and one under-20s international player.
World 12s also said "informal" conversations with World Rugby, clubs, unions and players had been "constructive".
World Rugby insisted extensive talks with the tournament organisers were vital.
"We are aware of the proposed new World 12s competition," World Rugby said.
"While we welcome innovative thinking with the potential to advance the reach, attractiveness and growth of the sport, comprehensive consultation with the organisers is required to understand the viability of the concept, particularly in the context of ongoing global calendar discussions and the priority area of player welfare."
Former All Blacks head coach Steve Hansen is acting as a World 12s ambassador and believes players will jump at the chance to take part in the new tournament.
"I really think the players will want to be part of this, and they will find a way to push their clubs and unions to look at the calendar," he told BBC Sport.
"Why do I think this is different? Because the players are going to have a vested interest, they will want to play in it for a number of reasons.
"One, financially, that's the obvious one. Two, I think the concept of being able to spend three weeks with some of the best players in the world, rub shoulders on the training field, that is too good to turn down.
"You look at the IPL, people want to be there for the money, but they want to be there because of who they are playing with."
Their own version of Animal Farm eh ?
How many people watch the Wids these days ?
4 I think But I recently seen that Italy under 18s beat englans under 18s at union Nobody is mentioning crisis in their sport. In fact its all been glossed over and assigned to the history books. I also noted that despite everything their remains an abundance of public school representation in the England under 18 team at union. I also checked the fees at some of these schools like Millfield and Kirkham grammar, and Ampleforth, and Sedburgh college and Hartpury, they all cost a fortune. So what it creates if a false sense of outstanding ability They are not outstanding Simply privelaged
”there you go bringing class into it Dennis” The snobbery may still exist at the schoolboy level but the RU version of our “elite” SL is not underpinned by a reliance on social hierarchy. It is underpinned by (compared to the RFL / SLE) business acumen from another universe far, far away. The reason that clubs like the Wids still exist is basically twofold imho 1) because there are people who genuinely like playing the game and 2) because there are youngsters coming through the junior game who see club like the Wids as a potential steeping stone to bigger things within the game. Sadly since the early 1960’s when I started watching and playing League at the Bede’s the numbers playing have declined and the promotion path – certainly in England no longer exists – the pinnacle now seems to be a couple of years Burma’s holiday in Oz with the NRL.
I’ve not mentioned class It’s money. Subtle difference Also Can you name me a wids player who has used the wids as a stepping stone to union greatness – let’s say in the last 25 years. I doubt anyone would get their kids playing union to assist them to become great athletes
Ah, apologies, I mistook your references to public schools and privilege as a reference to class. I guess you don’t share the general perception that the public school system is a manifestation of the wider class system, which is fair enough. I’m not able to name a Wids player who went on to greater deeds but that is probably down to two things – I have no interest in the Wids and I now live in Hampshire and discussions about the Wids are fairly few and far between. I’d also say that having checked what I wrote I can’t see where I actually mentioned anybody from the Wids going on to greater deeds.
Tony Myler
How many people watch the Wids these days ?
4 I think But I recently seen that Italy under 18s beat englans under 18s at union Nobody is mentioning crisis in their sport. In fact its all been glossed over and assigned to the history books. I also noted that despite everything their remains an abundance of public school representation in the England under 18 team at union. I also checked the fees at some of these schools like Millfield and Kirkham grammar, and Ampleforth, and Sedburgh college and Hartpury, they all cost a fortune. So what it creates if a false sense of outstanding ability They are not outstanding Simply privelaged
”there you go bringing class into it Dennis” The snobbery may still exist at the schoolboy level but the RU version of our “elite” SL is not underpinned by a reliance on social hierarchy. It is underpinned by (compared to the RFL / SLE) business acumen from another universe far, far away. The reason that clubs like the Wids still exist is basically twofold imho 1) because there are people who genuinely like playing the game and 2) because there are youngsters coming through the junior game who see club like the Wids as a potential steeping stone to bigger things within the game. Sadly since the early 1960’s when I started watching and playing League at the Bede’s the numbers playing have declined and the promotion path – certainly in England no longer exists – the pinnacle now seems to be a couple of years Burma’s holiday in Oz with the NRL.
I’ve not mentioned class It’s money. Subtle difference Also Can you name me a wids player who has used the wids as a stepping stone to union greatness – let’s say in the last 25 years. I doubt anyone would get their kids playing union to assist them to become great athletes
Ah, apologies, I mistook your references to public schools and privilege as a reference to class. I guess you don’t share the general perception that the public school system is a manifestation of the wider class system, which is fair enough. I’m not able to name a Wids player who went on to greater deeds but that is probably down to two things – I have no interest in the Wids and I now live in Hampshire and discussions about the Wids are fairly few and far between. I’d also say that having checked what I wrote I can’t see where I actually mentioned anybody from the Wids going on to greater deeds.
Tony Myler
🤩