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Union or League?

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(@gpo1971)
Honorable Member

Surely if B happened, the good folk on here couldn’t possible moan with any more gusto than they do about A, which is already happening? I’ll take B please. I’m not a massive fan of RU but it would be a better option than going through scenario A to the end of my days.

I dont think club RU is too bad. Lets be honest watching Widnes at the moment is pretty depressing. If it meant large crowds, top players and revenue for the town it would be a no brainer for me. Not thats its going to happen though.

RU has good days and bad. The recent Lions tour was painful watching and England always seem to bore the crap out of a game. But I watched a few Premiership games last year, particularly in the play-offs, that were better than what Super League is serving up.

 

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Posted : 21/08/2021 9:28 am
(@primrose-viking)
Estimable Member

The wids have not really produced an abundance of players have they

It seem like a bit of a laff union and I'm sure it has its merits

But not for me at all

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Posted : 21/08/2021 5:24 pm
 Owl
(@owl)
Trusted Member

Union as played at top club level is very like unlimited tackle League of 30 years ago. Distance between opposite lines  10yds.Forwards just gain a few yards staying low as to make sure to get to ground and so keep the ball (recycle? phases? think they call it) as rucks are not contested as they used to be. There is actually less kicking than in league, When the ball goes out to the backs it`s very much the same as league with similar moves etc. ...as some the coaches are  from league backgrounds.  Line speed etc are terms from League. Watchable if you like and understand rugby skills.  Better live than on TV. Always offers on to watch Sale...or people selling cheap spare tickets outside at AJ Bell.....never paid full price ...

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Posted : 21/08/2021 9:11 pm
Former Chemic
(@former-chemic)
Honorable Member

Fewer kicks than in RL??

I must make an appointment to see my optician ASAP!

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Posted : 21/08/2021 9:48 pm
(@royston-vasey)
Honorable Member

The wids have not really produced an abundance of players have they It seem like a bit of a laff union and I’m sure it has its merits But not for me at all

The Wids always played second fiddle to the Chemics - it was a League town. Howver, there were one or two who came from Union to improve us - Mick Burke, John Devereux, Alan Tait, Martin Offiah, Jonathan Davies, Jim Mills, Glynn Shaw Emosi Kolotto, Paul Moriarty. They were pretty useful additions over the years and that’s just off the top of my head.

 

 

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Posted : 21/08/2021 11:52 pm
 Owl
(@owl)
Trusted Member

Fewer kicks than in RL?? I must make an appointment to see my optician ASAP!

Actually you need to go to watch eg Sale and take an abacus with you.

The number of kicks is a problem for League.............too many ......fixed in pattern. 5 tackle kick..........5 tackle kick....5 tackle kick...not enough variation. Add to that the slow tussle every tackle and play the ball. The game is becoming boring..........

There is less kicking  in top club Union in open play

Yes kicks for goal more as points differential v try is smaller

Union has boring aspects eg set scrums ,lineouts but has changed beyond recognition for the better in recent years as to entertainment value................

League is sadly going the other way..

Hence the call for a quick version.....to re-engage the public.(the hundred in cricket ...look what that has done )

Lots this week about this in news. League needs to change ..........

Recognised by many at the top of the game

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Posted : 22/08/2021 9:42 am
Former Chemic
(@former-chemic)
Honorable Member

That’s a very reasoned summary of your opinions owl. But we will have to agree to disagree, and I’m more than happy to be pigeon-holed as one of those at “the bottom end of the game” ie a former player and long term paying supporter.

 

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Posted : 22/08/2021 10:06 am
widneslatic
(@widneslatic)
Reputable Member

Fewer kicks than in RL?? I must make an appointment to see my optician ASAP!

Actually you need to go to watch eg Sale and take an abacus with you. The number of kicks is a problem for League………….too many ……fixed in pattern. 5 tackle kick……….5 tackle kick….5 tackle kick…not enough variation. Add to that the slow tussle every tackle and play the ball. The game is becoming boring………. There is less kicking in top club Union in open play Yes kicks for goal more as points differential v try is smaller Union has boring aspects eg set scrums ,lineouts but has changed beyond recognition for the better in recent years as to entertainment value……………. League is sadly going the other way.. Hence the call for a quick version…..to re-engage the public.(the hundred in cricket …look what that has done ) Lots this week about this in news. League needs to change ………. Recognised by many at the top of the game

I genuinely haven't seen a Union game where I've not been bored rigid. Truly awful game with an utterly ridiculous scoring system.

Rugby League was at its very best in this country when it was played in winter & semi professional.

We need to go back and play to our strengths.

The professional sport is dying fast because the brains trust at RFL/SLE Towers think the game is bigger than it actually is.

We're never ever going to be anywhere near as big as Union or Football, and I'm totally okay with that, because the game I was brought up on, and fell in love with, was the one that was sacrificed for the rubbish that is served up today.

 

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Posted : 22/08/2021 10:46 pm
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

Spot on regarding the personnel at RFL/SLE.

All seeking to be topping the RL version of the Premier League, paid for by the supporters.

One good thing (the only good thing) to come out of the Sky association is the camera work. The close handling skills that mark the difference between RL and RU should be used more to emphasise that difference.

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Posted : 23/08/2021 8:31 am
 Owl
(@owl)
Trusted Member

Spot on regarding the personnel at RFL/SLE. All seeking to be topping the RL version of the Premier League, paid for by the supporters. One good thing (the only good thing) to come out of the Sky association is the camera work. The close handling skills that mark the difference between RL and RU should be used more to emphasise that difference.

Is there a difference ?................there was  ...not nowadays

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Posted : 24/08/2021 7:26 pm
(@sinbad)
Noble Member

I genuinely haven’t seen a Union game where I’ve not been bored rigid. Truly awful game with an utterly ridiculous scoring system. Rugby League was at its very best in this country when it was played in winter & semi professional. We need to go back and play to our strengths. The professional sport is dying fast because the brains trust at RFL/SLE Towers think the game is bigger than it actually is. We’re never ever going to be anywhere near as big as Union or Football, and I’m totally okay with that, because the game I was brought up on, and fell in love with, was the one that was sacrificed for the rubbish that is served up today.

What more can I add to that post ? Totally agree.What people see as RL weaknesses are actually its strengths.It is a minor sport popular in small towns and communities in the north and there's nothing wrong with that.

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Posted : 24/08/2021 7:46 pm
(@primrose-viking)
Estimable Member

How many people watch the Wids these days ?

 

4 I think

 

But I recently seen that Italy under 18s beat englans under 18s at union

Nobody is mentioning crisis in their sport.

 

In fact its all been glossed over and assigned to the history books.

I also noted that despite everything their remains an abundance of public school representation in the England under 18 team at union.

 

I also checked the fees at some of these schools like Millfield and Kirkham grammar, and Ampleforth, and Sedburgh college and Hartpury, they all cost a fortune.

So what it creates if a false sense of outstanding ability

They are not outstanding

Simply privelaged

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Posted : 24/08/2021 8:48 pm
(@royston-vasey)
Honorable Member

How many people watch the Wids these days ?

4 I think But I recently seen that Italy under 18s beat englans under 18s at union Nobody is mentioning crisis in their sport. In fact its all been glossed over and assigned to the history books. I also noted that despite everything their remains an abundance of public school representation in the England under 18 team at union. I also checked the fees at some of these schools like Millfield and Kirkham grammar, and Ampleforth, and Sedburgh college and Hartpury, they all cost a fortune. So what it creates if a false sense of outstanding ability They are not outstanding Simply privelaged

”there you go bringing class into it Dennis”

The snobbery may still exist at the schoolboy level but the RU version of our “elite” SL is not underpinned by a reliance on social hierarchy. It is underpinned by (compared to the RFL / SLE) business acumen from another universe far, far away.

The reason that clubs like the Wids still exist is basically twofold imho 1) because there are people who genuinely like playing the game and 2) because there are youngsters coming through the junior game who see club like the Wids as a potential steeping stone to bigger things within the game.

Sadly since the early 1960’s when I started watching and playing League at the Bede’s the numbers playing have declined and the promotion path - certainly in England no longer exists - the pinnacle now seems to be a couple of years Burma’s holiday in Oz with the NRL.

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Posted : 24/08/2021 9:32 pm
(@primrose-viking)
Estimable Member

How many people watch the Wids these days ?

4 I think But I recently seen that Italy under 18s beat englans under 18s at union Nobody is mentioning crisis in their sport. In fact its all been glossed over and assigned to the history books. I also noted that despite everything their remains an abundance of public school representation in the England under 18 team at union. I also checked the fees at some of these schools like Millfield and Kirkham grammar, and Ampleforth, and Sedburgh college and Hartpury, they all cost a fortune. So what it creates if a false sense of outstanding ability They are not outstanding Simply privelaged

”there you go bringing class into it Dennis” The snobbery may still exist at the schoolboy level but the RU version of our “elite” SL is not underpinned by a reliance on social hierarchy. It is underpinned by (compared to the RFL / SLE) business acumen from another universe far, far away. The reason that clubs like the Wids still exist is basically twofold imho 1) because there are people who genuinely like playing the game and 2) because there are youngsters coming through the junior game who see club like the Wids as a potential steeping stone to bigger things within the game. Sadly since the early 1960’s when I started watching and playing League at the Bede’s the numbers playing have declined and the promotion path – certainly in England no longer exists – the pinnacle now seems to be a couple of years Burma’s holiday in Oz with the NRL.

 

I've not mentioned class

It's money.

Subtle difference

 

Also

Can you name me a wids player who has used the wids as a stepping stone to union greatness - let's say in the last 25 years.

I doubt anyone would get their kids playing union to assist them to become great athletes

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Posted : 24/08/2021 10:30 pm
(@steelviking)
Estimable Member

1. Why is this in Widnes Vikings section?

2. Plenty of reference to Union in decline in Saturdays Times (the Union bible)

 

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Posted : 24/08/2021 10:35 pm
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