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(@johno)
Eminent Member
We all know what the problem is, temporary injury crisis appart, we don't have the money to compete at the top end of this league. We all know what the answer is, get more money into the club. How we achieve that seems to divide us.

 
A lot of people are adopting a strategy of endless patience, leaning heavily on the power of prayer, and hoping that a rich backer will appear and pump money into the club. It may happen, but, if it doesn't, we need to get more supporters in or get more money from the supporters we already have.
 
I've suggested in previous posts that we should try working with the current owners to set up a supporters Trust to own a 50%+1 share stake in the club. Membership of the Trust could be available to all supporters for a modest annual subscription. Membership would presumably need to give some benefit to subscribers. This would obviously include representation on the board, but might, for instance include viewing board meetings (via Zoom?), voting on how the trust casts its vote on agreeing financial transactions that might affect the future of the club and maybe some non-contentious issues like kit design etc. 
 
The main aim of this Trust would be to prevent ownership of the whole club by a single person who might not have its best interests at heart, but it might also bring in some funds. A lot of those who might be interested in joining are likely to be already donating to the club, via groups like VIQI. Therefore, it might increase overall funding but it wouldn't replace a Sugar Daddy.
 
The remaining 50%-1 shares are where substantial funds could potentially be generated. These are the shares that might be sold to a Sugar Daddy, should one ever appear, in part to recoup the money the owners spent to save the club, but also to bring money in. In the absence of single rich baker there is an alternative. 
 
I'm not an expert in Widnes RLFC, but, if I remember correctly, during the golden years, we weren't owned by a single Sugar Daddy, but often by a number of wealthy backers working together. 
 
We could attempt to recreate that by creating a second supporters group, the Supporters Executive or something equally toe-curling. This would also be open to supporters for an annual subscription, however, to be at a level that would pump meaningful amounts of cash into the club, say £5,000 or £10,000 (or more?). In return membership must also provide some real value for their investment to members. I’d have thought the numbers wishing to join wouldn’t be large, so my suggestion would be that either the largest of the executive boxes 24 seats (or smaller if we got less applicants) are given over for their use on match days (free buffet, waiter service etc). 
 
Additionally they could have their names in the program, and pretty much anything else they want, but they would want seats on the board themselves or at least board representation. The number of shares this group might contriol would be up to the current owners of course, but  they would need, at least, to be part of the real decision making, like sacking a coach, player recruitment etc.
 
It is up to the current owners how they go forward, but we need money if we’re ever going to be a force in this league and this might be a way of supplying it. We may find we don’t have enough well off folk in Widnes (or our ex pats) to do this but it must surely be worth a try?
This topic was modified 3 years ago 3 times by johno
Quote
Topic starter Posted : 24/04/2022 6:54 pm
sandgroper and Pascal reacted
(@delta-machine)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @johno
We all know what the problem is, temporary injury crisis appart, we don't have the money to compete at the top end of this league. We all know what the answer is, get more money into the club. How we achieve that seems to divide us.

 

 
A lot of people are adopting a strategy of endless patience, leaning heavily on the power of prayer, and hoping that a rich backer will appear and pump money into the club. It may happen, but, if it doesn't, we need to get more supporters in or get more money from the supporters we already have.
 
I've suggested in previous posts that we should try working with the current owners to set up a supporters Trust to own a 50%+1 share stake in the club. Membership of the Trust could be available to all supporters for a modest annual subscription. Membership would presumably need to give some benefit to subscribers. This would obviously include representation on the board, but might, for instance include viewing board meetings (via Zoom?), voting on how the trust casts its vote on agreeing financial transactions that might affect the future of the club and maybe some non-contentious issues like kit design etc. 
 
The main aim of this Trust would be to prevent ownership of the whole club by a single person who might not have its best interests at heart, but it might also bring in some funds. A lot of those who might be interested in joining are likely to be already donating to the club, via groups like VIQI. Therefore, it might increase overall funding but it wouldn't replace a Sugar Daddy.
 
The remaining 50%-1 shares are where substantial funds could potentially be generated. These are the shares that might be sold to a Sugar Daddy, should one ever appear, in part to recoup the money the owners spent to save the club, but also to bring money in. In the absence of single rich baker there is an alternative. 
 
I'm not an expert in Widnes RLFC, but, if I remember correctly, during the golden years, we weren't owned by a single Sugar Daddy, but often by a number of wealthy backers working together. 
 
We could attempt to recreate that by creating a second supporters group, the Supporters Executive or something equally toe-curling. This would also be open to supporters for an annual subscription, however, to be at a level that would pump meaningful amounts of cash into the club, say £5,000 or £10,000 (or more?). In return membership must also provide some real value for their investment to members. I’d have thought the numbers wishing to join wouldn’t be large, so my suggestion would be that either the largest of the executive boxes 24 seats (or smaller if we got less applicants) are given over for their use on match days (free buffet, waiter service etc). 
 
Additionally they could have their names in the program, and pretty much anything else they want, but they would want seats on the board themselves or at least board representation. The number of shares this group might contriol would be up to the current owners of course, but  they would need, at least, to be part of the real decision making, like sacking a coach, player recruitment etc.
 
It is up to the current owners how they go forward, but we need money if we’re ever going to be a force in this league and this might be a way of supplying it. We may find we don’t have enough well off folk in Widnes (or our ex pats) to do this but it must surely be worth a try?

That.. or we could just hire a coach that knows his stuff  and recruits players that will play for him.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/04/2022 7:20 pm
Mick George reacted
(@cuerdley-viking)
Reputable Member

It may catch on delta, you know like York, Batley, Barrow, Sheffield or Fax do 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/04/2022 7:26 pm
(@delta-machine)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @cuerdley-viking

It may catch on delta, you know like York, Batley, Barrow, Sheffield or Fax do 

I know.. it's the future cuerdley! 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/04/2022 8:03 pm
(@pascal)
Noble Member

Great idea but I feel if we had a decent coach the results would be better. These players recruited by Finnigan so the buck is with him. Batley don't have a better budget than Widnes, so how come miles better than us? Coaching or poor recruitment, but personally I don't think they are as bad as these results. 

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Posted : 24/04/2022 10:08 pm
(@royston-vasey)
Honorable Member

Who do you imagine in the entire world, outside of an asylum would buy 49% of shares in Widnes ? Effectively they would have no control over what the club chose to do as they would be a minority shareholder and could always be outvoted.

They might as well just sit by the Mersey setting fire to their money all day.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2022 12:37 am
(@johno)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @royston-vasey

Who do you imagine in the entire world, outside of an asylum would buy 49% of shares in Widnes ? Effectively they would have no control over what the club chose to do as they would be a minority shareholder and could always be outvoted.

They might as well just sit by the Mersey setting fire to their money all day.

This from the web;

"Under the law of England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, the voting rights attached to any particular shares depend on the articles of the company and any terms of issue imposed when the shares were created. The vast majority of shares are ordinary shares which carry a right to one vote per share. There may, however, be different classes of shares which may have no voting rights or restricted rights (e.g. can only vote in certain circumstances) or may have additional voting rights (e.g. 10 votes per share) or enhanced voting rights in particular circumstances."

So, you can restrict what the 50%+1 shares can vote on to anything you like, leaving the control of the rest of it to your Sugar Daddy.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 25/04/2022 10:10 am
(@royston-vasey)
Honorable Member

@johno Sorry, yeah, that’s a possibility but not one that is very likely to happen. If what you envisage came to pass what would be the point of buying into the 51% ?

Either way it is academic.

The factions wanting to buy into the club to get rid of O’Connor, Rule et al we’re like the scene in the Life of Brian where the People’s Front of Judea hated the Judean People’s Front and vice versa. You can’t get three people on this forum to agree on anything, let alone a three year business plan for a business. And, as I say there isn’t a sensible business person in the world who would waste money on us at the moment.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2022 10:24 am
(@mick-george)
Prominent Member

What exactly would people be buying? The club don't own anything.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2022 10:47 am
(@royston-vasey)
Honorable Member

@mick-george The players would be about the only marketable assets and most of the assets could walk at the end of the season.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2022 11:01 am
(@johno)
Eminent Member

@royston-vasey

There's no need to apologise at all, we're just swapping ideas.
 
The last thing we need at the moment is a 'sensible business person' if, by that, you mean someone who will attempt to take a profit from the club. I doubt there is a Rugby League club in the UK that makes profit, including Super League, but I may be wrong on that.
 
What we're after is a Sugar Daddy who, either through love of the club, or as a vanity project, is willing to pump money into the club with little or no expectation of getting it back. What we got last time would appear to be an Aspartame Daddy, all of the vanity, very little of the money (beyond loans to the club if reports are true). That's what, in part, the Supporters Trust would be protecting.
 
How much would that Sugar Daddy be expected to put in, on a regular basis or in a lump sum? I ask because the club's already got an income stream beyond central funding and match takings. Since the last collapse, it's forecast that the supporters will have given the club £581,000 by the end of this year through VIQI (on top of tickets, kit sales and everything else). That's a phenomenal achievement and I'd've thought the current owners would be falling over themselves to recognize that contribution in some meaningful way. If we do get a new owner of the whole club I can't see that contribution holding up at that level. I, for one, would go back to the old weekly draw (otherwise It'd be like buying your neighbour double glazing and watching his house go up in price) and the Sugar Daddy would need to cover any shortfall. The supporters Trust at least gives a return for people's extra contributions beyond tickets etc.
 
As for the various factions within the general support, from what bits I've heard you're bang on.
 
This post was modified 3 years ago by johno
ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 25/04/2022 1:06 pm
(@wrlfcefc1989)
Estimable Member

@pascal, did Finnigan actually bring the players in? Not a Finnigan fan but I don't believe its all down to him. Phil Finney loves a good man 🙂 

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Posted : 25/04/2022 1:23 pm
Pascal reacted
(@pascal)
Noble Member
Posted by: @wrlfcefc1989

@pascal, did Finnigan actually bring the players in? Not a Finnigan fan but I don't believe its all down to him. Phil Finney loves a good man 🙂 

Agree mate 🥖🥖👍

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Posted : 25/04/2022 8:25 pm
PaulieWalnuts
(@pauliewalnuts)
Prominent Member

What makes folk think that the present owners would want to sell half of their stock?

I would find it remarkable that fans would buy shares & put into VIQI too. Not saying they will or won't, but times are hard, and as it is to be pumping your hard earned into a rudderless ship, heading to the iceberg.

Up The Chemics

Paulie xx

This post was modified 3 years ago by PaulieWalnuts
ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/04/2022 10:27 pm
(@primrose-viking)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @royston-vasey

@johno Sorry, yeah, that’s a possibility but not one that is very likely to happen. If what you envisage came to pass what would be the point of buying into the 51% ?

Either way it is academic.

The factions wanting to buy into the club to get rid of O’Connor, Rule et al we’re like the scene in the Life of Brian where the People’s Front of Judea hated the Judean People’s Front and vice versa. You can’t get three people on this forum to agree on anything, let alone a three year business plan for a business. And, as I say there isn’t a sensible business person in the world who would waste money on us at the moment.

RULE was a crook and in reality O connor knew very little about the sport and paid his brother (who was useless) about 100 grand a year

ReplyQuote
Posted : 30/04/2022 3:57 pm
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