I thought the writing was on the wall after the York game, when Jack Owens returned and was well below par and seemingly frustrated.
When we conceded the virtual exact try against Leigh to the one against York with a short chip chase close to the line, but with a different full-back, it was perhaps more clear that it was the way the team were being coached to defend rather than individual error.
There are some players I don't think are Championship standard. I can be a nice lad and work hard, but it doesn't mean I'm good enough to play Championship rugby.
I think SF was hampered slightly by starting in COVID, and so struggled to get fans on side from day one. He cares massively for the club and is very passionate about it, in spite of what fans say about him and what he wears.
Maybe at times he was guilty of overthinking, maybe trying to think too hard or be too clever, particularly around interchanges. There never seemed to be a 'back to basics' approach. Whether the basics of the game are more complicated than I give credit for is a different argument.
In terms of the club, whether there is a plan in place or a strategy only the board will know. Whether that's something they ought to present to the fans or be more transparent about is a fair question, but I wouldn't say that they are obliged to. Clearly re-building the club isn't an overnight job, and it's about more than just what happens on the pitch.
There are some good things being done in the local community and with the kids camps, and I think PF has been pretty vocal in his priority being getting rugby balls in kids hands to protect the future of Widnes and rugby league in the town. My own son went to one of the holiday camps and loved it. The difficulty of course is making sure that lads like my son want to watch Widnes play rugby, when they've got mates who support Warrington and St Helens that they see on TV play in front of packed stadiums.
I don't think anyone knows what is happening in the back office - so it's difficult to offer an opinion. Ultimately, what any semi-pro club needs is people that can cover a number of different disciplines and all be focused on doing what it takes to run the club - mucking in doing various jobs, doing what is possible to generate revenue particularly through sponsorship, merchandise and ticket sales, and of course engaging with the fan base. I've seen first hand how this works successfully at other clubs in our division when you've got the right people - I can't comment whether it's the same at Widnes as I've not been involved.
I'm not sure how active the club are in the commercial space since Dave Rolt left, but you can only assume that they are generating enough revenue through sponsorship to be as sustainable as possible.
With Widnes now being a part-time club playing out of a rented stadium, it's hard to gauge just what activities the club can do.
Clearly there are challenges over the stadium which ultimately impact the fan experience - whether that be the prices of tickets, the ability to buy tickets (or pay cash), and generally the environment of the ground; the concourses and stands are looking very drab. There are many things that could be done, but perhaps it's a case of club v council - who pays? And also whether the council want the rugby to really plaster the stadium with their stuff when they require it to be used by other clubs too.
I appreciate some feel the fan experience is as simple as winning games (that's all I would care about myself) - but it's not just about that in terms of attracting new or young fans. Even if we were winning games, I'm not sure new fans would necessarily jump at the chance at coming back for £22 a pop - given the alternative entertainment around and also the fact that the fixture list is so inconsistent (we've played two home games on Sunday in the first three months of the season).
Going back to Super League - the years 2013-2016 is about as good as it will ever get for Widnes in my opinion; and it's as good as it's ever been in my lifetime. 2014 we made play-offs and got within 80 minutes of Wembley. During that time, there were fans critical of Denis Betts and the team but we are a world away from even those days. I was critical of Betts at time, particularly around half time team talks etc, but I never felt like he was big issue and that turned out to be the case. I don't think sacking Betts was the right call and still feel he would have kept us in SL - though of course that would have simply just kicked the Rule/O'Connor can down the road for a few more years.
The only way Widnes can be successful is by working hard to be engaged with fans and maximising the relatively small catchment area they have - I appreciate there's a theory we need to reach out to new fans in Liverpool etc; but if the club can't even get people from Widnes in, what hope have they got of getting Liverpool people in when St Helens and Warrington are just as convenient to get to and watch, with games of a better standard and a superior fan experience.
Widnes need to somehow find the sort of community feel that Hull KR, Featherstone and Castleford have managed to find and develop in recent years - where they all place themselves at the heart of their communities, focus on being the best they can within their limitations, and actually boast decent average crowds in the context of their populations. Obviously in the Rule era, Widnes were trying to be made out to be this 'elite' club to satisfy Rule's ego; whereas actually all he was doing was disconnecting it from the community it is completely reliant on to exist.
James that is the most profound and truthful statement i have read since i have been on this board.
I know SF was a decent person and appreciate the way he felt about the team and club but i for one never enjoyed his tactics and was astonished and jubilant when we won our first four games and proved me wrong but it wasn't just about the loss it was about the way we played from then on. The barrow game was a real thriller from a neutral point of view but we did play well in defeat and i accepted the defeat from another unbeaten team with grace but since then its gone totally downhill and from then the writing was on the wall. As for a new coach I notice that Kevin Brown's name has been mentioned and i also read he's a player representative which could also be an advantage to us a a club. As an aside my grandson also enjoyed the day at the club but last Sun was quite disappointed that there was no Kemic; so any takers for that job
The recruitment and retention is a key thing. Was it SF with the final call, or PF, or a joint call?
Think it's 100% right to say that we don't have players who are all good Championship standard.
Very interesting reading James’s comments
I believe we need to act on a lot of things with regards to community out reach and match day experience but I don’t think the club has the right people actively working on taking those to the next level more of a cruise control system rather than hey we need to see a huge improvement year on year
Superb summary (if a little wistful and depressing for me) James. Bravo
Very interesting reading James’s comments
I believe we need to act on a lot of things with regards to community out reach and match day experience but I don’t think the club has the right people actively working on taking those to the next level more of a cruise control system rather than hey we need to see a huge improvement year on year
Mc we need a team before the community stuff and match day experience they will only drop in place if the team are playing to the standards that they should. We are a small part time club and the first priority is to be able to compete, not win every game but at least put in the effort, if this doesn't happen then the things you mention is pointless as there will be nobody supporting the team.
@mick-george I totally agree the lads on the pitch need to be competing and playing for the jersey. Hopefully with finnegan gone they’ll get better and play as a team working harder for the team. I don’t think we’ll win the league but as long as the effort is there the fans will back em
I think if the match day experience improves (including players performance) the fans will stick by them. We aren’t going to be able to compete with a full time team but as long as we can see the improvement and a dedicated performance from the lads we can move forward
when people see players putting in a shift even if we get beat by a better team we can still get behind them
@jdgsport Good read James and hits the nail on the head in many ways.
As has been said on here, all most fans want is a team that puts everything into a game, win or lose, but hopefully winning more games than they lose.
The Board had to make a change in the light of performances, but they must also have seen fans walking away from the Club. It will be interesting to see whether we notice any changes in the team set-up in coming games, although there is limited flexibility. Maybe a few more loans, or even a signing or two to bolster the squad, but that very much depends on availability and funding.
I know that it may not make financial sense, but an immediate initiative may be to reduce admission prices by a fiver with a commitment to offer the same discount to season ticket holders renewing in 2023.
I would be happy with Kevin Brown. He is tactically quite astute (we saw that during his post match interviews when he played for us), he would be cheap as well as has no coaching pedigree yet, based local (one would assume) and already knows the club. I personally dont have any personal issue with him for leaving, he always played well for us and left to better himself, alright for the local enemy but, looking back he made the right decision because we went to crunchie!
He may do good Browny as does talk sense. He could be the next Powell in the making, but could be a gamble too. On a safe side go for someone with a bit of pedigree like Chester, Marshall, Henderson or Wardy for example. We have to get the appointment correct and back him too.
Kevin Brown has reportedly ruled himself out of the job.
Kevin Brown has reportedly ruled himself out of the job.
Don't blame him after the abuse he received from Widnes fans whenever he played against us after leaving to join Warrington.
Kev Brown has never coached a first grade game has he? Crazy suggestion, because he was a good player means he will be a good coach?
Kevin Brown has reportedly ruled himself out of the job.
Perhaps Widnes never ruled him in, anyway.I have ruled myself out.
Kev Brown has never coached a first grade game has he? Crazy suggestion, because he was a good player means he will be a good coach?
Well said. For example, Denis Betts was a great player but a poor coach.
From the club output when Simon was appointed there wasn't a great deal of experienced interest - indeed Simon was appointed largely because he was a supporter and Widnes resident. Don't recall Marshall being mentioned at all tbh.
The club's hard pressed financial state won't attract ambitious coaches who will be looking for instant improvement, which usually means signings. If it were that easy it would have been done I suspect.
Interesting that Newcastle and others are also picking up loans 'just in case'.
No coach takes a job expecting to be a poor coach and mostly their future employment is dependant on their results.
Some credit must go to Simon Finnegan on agreeing a compromise to leave the club , but the team he assembled has been very poor, with no real discernable effort to recruit a pack suitable for this level of rugby.
We often comment on former players ( I am talking about half backs and backs ), going to other championship clubs and looking like different players. Could this be because clubs such as Batley and others recruit forwards with knowledge and experience in this division and they give their backs protection and time to run the game.
For too many years, our play makers have been behind a beaten pack and our new coach must address this first and foremost.
I would like to see our new coach approach the job with an intention to provide the fans with an exciting and vibrant brand of football with players who come off the park knowing they have given 100%.