I can’t believe we are talking about getting points to survive we are a far better outfit than the way we are playing.
I’ve been a big critic but thought today was much better. York are a decent side and will be top 4 at seasons end.
We are 6 games in, so a quarter of the way through the season already and are in the relegation zone. The next 2 games are now crucial, Whitehaven and Oldham are directly above us in the league, so both games are the proverbial 4 pointers. Win both and we should be ok and could even kick on to mid table, but they are now must win, that's the reality of the situation.
Two massive games simple as that. If we don’t win both it’s a real cause for concern. Losing both doesn’t bear thinking about.
For 60 minutes, we were in the game which was at least more than expected after last week.
We simply ran out of bodies. They had Washbrook, Cuthbertson and Baldwinson on the bench; whereas we had two backs and Tilleke who's a rookie.
If we had Clough and Farnworth on bench, we may well have give it a go to the end.
The first 15 minutes of the second half when York were all over us, there was a lot more pride and effort in defence than we've seen all season.
The Washbrook try on 59 minutes - off a shambolic play the ball and a harsh penalty on Tilleke - killed us off. I thought there was a very poor play by Joe Lyons ahead of Ben Jones-Bishop's try, when he tried a short kick through when we simply needed to kick for territory having been on back foot for whole of second half.
There are still some individual errors that are letting us down; I'm not sure how you can blame anyone but the individual players for things like O'Neill passing poorly off the floor forcing Craven to knock on 10m from line, or Baker throwing a forward pass stood still on tackle two.
Smith at 13 seemed to do OK. I wonder whether he could go to 9?
We at least looked more like a team that could compete for the play-offs; especially when you consider only 15 players used (save for Hill's brief cameo at the end) and without three of the starting pack.
Haven't seen a replay of the disallowed Craven try, though there wasn't a massive protest against it at the time. Hatton got held up over the line too.
If we play like that next week we will beat Whitehaven
Got to win otherwise it’s more or less game over and third division.
Say we beat Whitehaven home and away, Oldham home and away and Swinton away that would give us 13 points. Would that be enough to avoid the bottom 2 in a 22 game season?
We can't count on beating those teams. Our main problem is that we don't have enough fit forwards. I don't know what is going on and the club have given no explanation why we cannot take in more or sufficient loan players to cover this shortage. A lot of Super League Clubs have about 8-9 older players taken in to cover a reserve season which is now not taking place. They are training regularly but not getting any game time whatsoever. Saints have about 8-9 they have lent Eaves and Simm to Leigh, Riselli to Swinton etc. Included in the 8-9 are ex Widnes players Ben Davies and Dan Norman both of whom would get in our present team. If our rivals start to pick up loan signings and we don't then all bets are off. For example York are an entirely different proposition with Riley Dean ( Wire) at 6 and Mikey Lewis (Hull KR) at 1 than without them. Swinton, Whitehaven, Oldham could also become a different proposition with the right additions. We would be as well obviously.
I agree with what you say James, I thought that Lawton had his best game at least showing some aggression and Smith (who I think has been unfairly targeted on here) probably had his best game. Cook is a good player and puts in a lot of effort, but the glaring fact is that the squad is far too small, particularly in the forwards, even if we had Tomkins, Farnworth, Jewitt and Clough available.
Finnegan in his post match interview says that he was pleased with the effort, but it is no good putting in effort for 60 minutes when the game lasts 80 minutes. He bemoans the lack of luck. Luck has nothing to do with it, we were well beaten by a better team on the day. Neither is it the fault of the ref, despite him disallowing a clear Widnes try
York have a squad of 31 players including several with SL experience and can still bring loan players, like Mikey Lewis, to boost their squad. The fact is our squad is paper thin and has no chance of competing with the likes of York.
Apparently, Finnegan had just 18 players available yesterday and we had throw in a couple of backs on the bench to make up the numbers. You expect this to happen at junior level, but it is criminal for a so called "professional" outfit to run out of players at this stage of the season.
We are one of the best supported teams in the Championship and were told at the beginning of the season that we had money available to bring in players if we needed them. Well I think we need to bring in at least another two forwards urgently to boost the squad and at least cover for injuries.
I believe we can still avoid relegation - I never thought I would be saying that after just five games - but the games against Whitehaven and Oldham are now must wins. It will be no good competing for 60 minutes against Whitehaven and then shipping points in the last quarter. If we lose against Whitehaven, I would guess the covid restricted crowds could be the highest of the season.
If we play like that next week we will beat Whitehaven
Got to win otherwise it’s more or less game over and third division.
Say we beat Whitehaven home and away, Oldham home and away and Swinton away that would give us 13 points. Would that be enough to avoid the bottom 2 in a 22 game season?
We can’t count on beating those teams. Our main problem is that we don’t have enough fit forwards. I don’t know what is going on and the club have given no explanation why we cannot take in more or sufficient loan players to cover this shortage. A lot of Super League Clubs have about 8-9 older players taken in to cover a reserve season which is now not taking place. They are training regularly but not getting any game time whatsoever. Saints have about 8-9 they have lent Eaves and Simm to Leigh, Riselli to Swinton etc. Included in the 8-9 are ex Widnes players Ben Davies and Dan Norman both of whom would get in our present team. If our rivals start to pick up loan signings and we don’t then all bets are off. For example York are an entirely different proposition with Riley Dean ( Wire) at 6 and Mikey Lewis (Hull KR) at 1 than without them. Swinton, Whitehaven, Oldham could also become a different proposition with the right additions. We would be as well obviously.
We can't, you're right, but we have comfortably beaten two of the three already this season.
i think at the moment, teams look at widnes and say theres 2 pts
I agree with what you say James, I thought that Lawton had his best game at least showing some aggression and Smith (who I think has been unfairly targeted on here) probably had his best game. Cook is a good player and puts in a lot of effort, but the glaring fact is that the squad is far too small, particularly in the forwards, even if we had Tomkins, Farnworth, Jewitt and Clough available. Finnegan in his post match interview says that he was pleased with the effort, but it is no good putting in effort for 60 minutes when the game lasts 80 minutes. He bemoans the lack of luck. Luck has nothing to do with it, we were well beaten by a better team on the day. Neither is it the fault of the ref, despite him disallowing a clear Widnes try York have a squad of 31 players including several with SL experience and can still bring loan players, like Mikey Lewis, to boost their squad. The fact is our squad is paper thin and has no chance of competing with the likes of York. Apparently, Finnegan had just 18 players available yesterday and we had throw in a couple of backs on the bench to make up the numbers. You expect this to happen at junior level, but it is criminal for a so called “professional” outfit to run out of players at this stage of the season. We are one of the best supported teams in the Championship and were told at the beginning of the season that we had money available to bring in players if we needed them. Well I think we need to bring in at least another two forwards urgently to boost the squad and at least cover for injuries. I believe we can still avoid relegation – I never thought I would be saying that after just five games – but the games against Whitehaven and Oldham are now must wins. It will be no good competing for 60 minutes against Whitehaven and then shipping points in the last quarter. If we lose against Whitehaven, I would guess the covid restricted crowds could be the highest of the season.
Frank, I really do hope you are joking about the Matty Smith point!
I wouldn't say we beat Whitehaven comfortably James . From memory they dropped the ball with the line begging and to go in front just before HT , we scored 60 secs later . That was the game changer . If they had scored it could of been a whole different outcome.
The Vicar
Frank, I really do hope you are joking about the Matty Smith point!
No. When most of the team were rubbish, why scapegoat one.
Frank, I really do hope you are joking about the Matty Smith point!
No
Unbelievable and this is from a bloke who’d play a winger in the front row!
I wouldn’t say we beat Whitehaven comfortably James . From memory they dropped the ball with the line begging and to go in front just before HT , we scored 60 secs later . That was the game changer . If they had scored it could of been a whole different outcome. The Vicar
Ditto yesterday if Hewer had allowed our "real" try and yellow carded Lewis for his professional foul.
Frank, I really do hope you are joking about the Matty Smith point!
No
Unbelievable and this is from a bloke who’d play a winger in the front row!
You are a joke, but not a funny one. I did not suggest we play a winger as a prop. I suggested someone who I incorrectly thought was a forward should be on the bench. I even thought at one point yesterday that you were about to make a positive comment about Widnes, but you held back and reverted to type.!!!