Betts was a fair appointment in 2010, but when he got the job for Super League, people were baffled.
I think he did a decent job. When you consider what was going on behind the scenes with James Rule etc, to get us in to the play-offs for the first time ever in 2014; and then also get top eight in 2016 was a tremendous effort.
Who knows what he might have been able to do with a full salary cap, had Rule etc not been creaming off the top and crying poverty. Betts developed a number of players that had finished bottom in 2012 and turned them in to a team that played decent rugby and could beat anyone on their day. With a deeper squad, "their day" could have happened more often.
We'd have had a much better chance of staying up in 2018 with Betts at the helm - I think we would have stayed up had he stayed. Ultimately Betts went because Princess Rule was feeling the heat. I think Kevin Brown's departure didn't help things either - but I think clearly he realised that Widnes had gone as far as they could under the Rule regime.
Had we stayed up in 2018 it was just for another year of tripe in 2019.And so on.
2011 in Division one.
March 27 Leigh (A) lost 16-54 League
April 4 Leigh (A) lost 18-50 RailCup
August 17 Featherstone (A) lost 16-56 League
September 4 Featherstone (H) lost 4-44 League.
Early season and two almighty thrashings against the same opponents just a couple of weeks apart.Nothing learned in between.
Late season and two almighty thrashings against the same opponents just a couple of weeks apart.Nothing learned in between
Season 2011 in Division one. March 27 Leigh (A) lost 16-54 League April 4 Leigh (A) lost 18-50 RailCup August 17 Featherstone (A) lost 16-56 League September 4 Featherstone (H) lost 4-44 League
Leigh and Featherstone finished 1 & 2 in the league that year, each losing just one game. Other results:
Sheffield 16 Widnes 44
Widnes 76 York 12
Featherstone 16 Widnes 22
We finished 5th in the league.
2011 was embarrassing because we were so far behind the Top 2, yet were going up with the license...
We also lost at home to Hunslet, away to Batley and Barrow and the Play-Off at Sheffield was poor....
In a way, 2012 up until Huddersfield at home was worse IMO
2011 was embarrassing because we were so far behind the Top 2, yet were going up with the license… We also lost at home to Hunslet, away to Batley and Barrow and the Play-Off at Sheffield was poor…. In a way, 2012 up until Huddersfield at home was worse IMO
The top 6 that year were well ahead of the rest and Batley - who we seem to struggle against most years - actually finished third. Without the points deduction, Barrow would have finished in the top half of the table. Sheffield also finished above us in the league.
I do agree that 2011 and 2012 were disappointing seasons - as were the previous three seasons. Our first season in SL was bound to be challenging with wholescale changes to the squad, but was particularly poor as we failed to compete in most of the games and were fortunate that there was no relegation that year.
We did then see an improvement in performance and results from 2013 to 2016, before the disastrous 2017 and 2018 seasons which in my view was primarily down to the lack of investment in the playing squad.
Hi Dennis, hope you're ok mate?
Hi Dennis, hope you’re ok mate?
Doing fine thanks mate. The travel between Gloucester and Newcastle can be a bit of a bind and I am missing my mate Jimmy to reminisce about the good times!!!
Leigh and Featherstone finished 1 & 2 in the league that year, each losing just one game.
Because they had decent coaches perhaps.
So it's ok to cop half century wallopings just as long as the opponents are top 2 sides ? I felt embarrassed when Featherstone came here on the last day of the season and collected the league leaders trophy after wiping the floor with us and we finished 5th but were already 'promoted' to SL.
Leigh and Featherstone finished 1 & 2 in the league that year, each losing just one game.
Because they had decent coaches perhaps. So it’s ok to cop half century wallopings just as long as the opponents are top 2 sides ? I felt embarrassed when Featherstone came here on the last day of the season and collected the league leaders trophy after wiping the floor with us and we finished 5th but were already ‘promoted’ to SL.
You could well be right about the coaches - Daryl Powell was Featherstone coach and Ian Millward was Leigh coach. They clearly had better teams too.
No, it is never OK to be beaten by cricket scores by anyone, but this happens to all teams at some time. I was just pointing out that you cannot simply give a few negative results against the top two teams in the Division and ignore other results.
I was similarly embarrassed about the result, but made up that we were going into SL. We had met the criteria for a SL licence and were going up. Do you think that the fact that we knew we were going into SL and many of the players would not be part of the SL team may have effected their performance. No excuse, but perhaps an understandable reaction.
I think I was more embarrassed with the results in the season when Frank Endacott was in charge.
I always thought he should have been shown the door after the Catalan debacle in 2012, we were free from the prospect of relegation and could have brought in a new coach who would have had time to build a squad under the franchise system
I knew we would be poor in SL in 2012 but what we saw was off the scale.Big mistake going into the following SIX seasons with him at the helm.Just seemed like an acceptance of mediocrity.
Well, this thread proves that fans opinions are just as divided on this issue as they are on so many other matters - rugby, politics and life in general
I genuinely can’t understand how Denis’s communication skills, team selections and style of coaching still receives support. Compare him to Tim Sheens who is articulate, capable of trying out various team selections and different tactics, and who seems to be able motivate and get the best out of the available pool of players.
Of course, DB’s supporters will not agree with my views, but that’s that’s the beauty of having a fans forum.
Its an interesting point though made by Frank G: was the Happy Frank debacle worse?
I half expected us to be poor in the Betts/Rule era.
2005 was worse in terms of the ratio of batterings to games?
Betts wasn’t a good coach, but I think happy Frank was worse. We should have got rid of Betts sooner, but the time when we did get rid of him was stupid. We were struggling to stay up and sacked him and so we then had to pay off the rest of his contract and we had no money to bring anybody else in , so we gave it to Cummings , who had no experience and was a lot worse than Betts. But of course Jimmy kept his job and his big salary, so he wasn’t bothered.