Everything’s relative though. For a player on loan, it’s a short term thing – they don’t want to be playing at bottom end of Championship if they need to earn a full-time deal somewhere. I don’t particularly agree with the decision (whoever’s it was) less than two weeks after supposedly committing until end of season, but it’s within the rules (maybe there needs to be a rule that prevents clubs recalling to loan someone out in the same division; or even a rule limiting how many clubs a player can play for in a season). That doesn’t necessarily mean that Widnes is dead, dying or otherwise. Nor does it mean Widnes has financial trouble. Likewise, a few bad results on the pitch and the jury being out on the coach doesn’t mean the club’s dying either. Not everyone can win.
Something doesn't sit right considering it was agreed 13 days previous for a season long loan. If either party were not happy they could have said extended by a month. While in the background securing something else.
Widnes probably need to assess whether this will be an ongoing thing and react, if they can't attract loan deals they need to somehow get permanent deals
We can’t continue to rely on loan players as we just aren’t high enough in the pecking order of clubs that SL teams want to send their players to, at lesat this is the way it seems at the moment.Whether our poor results have influenced the situation, how much of it is down to our training set up or even the pitch is unclear but it seems pretty obvious this shouldn’t be the way forward beyond this season. And if it is we will be having the same frustrating scenario arise again and again.
But MT have we really got a choice? I understand the frustrations with how the loan system workers but inadvertently what else do we really have? There is precious few players available to sign permanently if any and if the loan system worked effectively then it could be a big advantage just look at Featherstone.
Short term probably not. Not entirely sure what the longer term solution is. I am sure there are players to be found that can be signed on a permanent basis. Those dropping out of NW based SL sides, a bit of cherry picking from the likes of Rochdale, Swinton, Oldham and North Wales, recruiting promising players from the amateur game. I don’t subscribe to the view that there are no players. Yes, there is a bigger pool available to the Yorkshire Championship clubs but there are also far more clubs scrapping for their signatures.
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Short term probably not. Not entirely sure what the longer term solution is. I am sure there are players to be found that can be signed on a permanent basis. Those dropping out of NW based SL sides, a bit of cherry picking from the likes of Rochdale, Swinton, Oldham and North Wales, recruiting promising players from the amateur game. I don’t subscribe to the view that there are no players. Yes, there is a bigger pool available to the Yorkshire Championship clubs but there are also far more clubs scrapping for their signatures.
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Swinton a few years ago had some decent players who they plucked from obscurity, one of them got a move to Warrington and the other got a move to Wigan, can’t see why we can’t. We should be holding weekly trials.
Sounds to me as though Robson was the one who instigated the move.
I'd be making inquiries about Norman and Mullaly. Has Gerrard featured for Leigh yet this season?
Short term probably not. Not entirely sure what the longer term solution is. I am sure there are players to be found that can be signed on a permanent basis. Those dropping out of NW based SL sides, a bit of cherry picking from the likes of Rochdale, Swinton, Oldham and North Wales, recruiting promising players from the amateur game. I don’t subscribe to the view that there are no players. Yes, there is a bigger pool available to the Yorkshire Championship clubs but there are also far more clubs scrapping for their signatures.
How many of the current squads of Rochdale, Swinton and Oldham are better than what we have?
That's before you consider that being a top earner at one of those three will more than likely earn you more money than being a squad player at Widnes.
I’ve had a quick look at their squads.
Swinton: Luke Waterworth (while Tomkins injured), Martyn Ridyard (aging half-back pair with Smith!), Lewis Hatton (out for season injured)
Oldham: Ben Heaton, Ryan Ince, Gareth Owen, Danny Langtree
Rochdale: Sean Penkywicz (nearly 40, only because Tomkins injured), Gavin Bennion, Lewis Galbraith (just joined Rochdale for a fee from Batley)
Let's not forget that the club has not been able to transition to part-time as it would have liked due to the disruption of COVID. Recruitment for 2021 clearly had holes in it; so be interesting to see how that's addressed in 2022 and if the recruitment strategy is any difference (though of course can't really start until we know what league we'll be in!!)
I would have thought that we certainly should have started planning for 2022 and offering contracts to players we want to retain and approaching any players who may be available and we wish to bring in. Any offer would have to be with a proviso that we are not relegated to League 1 (or indeed promoted to SL!!!!!).
Do clubs yet know what central funding will be available to Championship/League 1 clubs in 2022? Subject to our financial position - and if we can retain the current fan base - we are probably in a better position than other Championship clubs and could offer better contracts to attract players.
Do the club have any plan for returning to SL or are they happy to continue as a mid-table (at best) Championship club? In which case, they should have a vision of returning to a full-time club or possibly a mix of full-time/part-time like Bradford.
I guess all this is dependent on surviving this year and central funding in 2022 and beyond; and whether we can survive the financial impact of covid and cuts in central funding. No doubt, some clubs will not survive.
It seems that Warrington were not happy with our part-time set up. In that case, I guess that Doro will be recalled too. This is the problem with loan deals, with the parent club able to recall players at short notice. Not a lot we can do this year, but having a small squad supplemented by short term loan deals does not work. I would hope the club will be planning to recruit a bigger first team squad next year – 30? – with the need to bring in loans in exceptional circumstances to cover injuries. This year, I would hope that we are looking to bring in at least two more forwards on season long deals, either on loan deals or otherwise. There must be a surplus of players at SL clubs who are unlikely to get a game, who clubs may release on a season long deal. All this, of course, depends on whether players are available and we have money available to sign players. As for not dealing with Warrington, I guess beggars can’t be choosers. We desperately need players and if a decent player is available from Warrington, preferably on a season long loan, then do we have any choice?
a player on a season long loan - like Doro and Robson were ?
As for Jewitt not playing again - is there any foundation to this ? Also I suspect Tomkins has played his last game for us
Tomkins is on contract for 2022.
Clubs aren't aware of central funding yet, so I guess that will need to be ironed out before we see much movement.
As for not dealing with Warrington, I guess beggars can’t be choosers. We desperately need players and if a decent player is available from Warrington, preferably on a season long loan, then do we have any choice?
a player on a season long loan – like Doro and Robson were ? As for Jewitt not playing again – is there any foundation to this ? Also I suspect Tomkins has played his last game for us
I am not aware of the current rules for loans, but if we cannot bring in someone on contract for the season, we are probably stuck with "season long loans", but having to accept the parent club can call them back at any time.
We definitely should not go into the 2022 season with a small squad and then reliant on loans to bolster the squad.
I suppose we will have to wait for an announcement from the club about the future of Clough and Tomkins.
Made me laugh when it was suggested on here that Clough was refusing to train. Judging by the comments on here, he is probably not the only one who wanted to avoid training!!!!!
Short term probably not. Not entirely sure what the longer term solution is. I am sure there are players to be found that can be signed on a permanent basis. Those dropping out of NW based SL sides, a bit of cherry picking from the likes of Rochdale, Swinton, Oldham and North Wales, recruiting promising players from the amateur game. I don’t subscribe to the view that there are no players. Yes, there is a bigger pool available to the Yorkshire Championship clubs but there are also far more clubs scrapping for their signatures.
How many of the current squads of Rochdale, Swinton and Oldham are better than what we have? That’s before you consider that being a top earner at one of those three will more than likely earn you more money than being a squad player at Widnes. I’ve had a quick look at their squads. Swinton: Luke Waterworth (while Tomkins injured), Martyn Ridyard (aging half-back pair with Smith!), Lewis Hatton (out for season injured) Oldham: Ben Heaton, Ryan Ince, Gareth Owen, Danny Langtree Rochdale: Sean Penkywicz (nearly 40, only because Tomkins injured), Gavin Bennion, Lewis Galbraith (just joined Rochdale for a fee from Batley) Let’s not forget that the club has not been able to transition to part-time as it would have liked due to the disruption of COVID. Recruitment for 2021 clearly had holes in it; so be interesting to see how that’s addressed in 2022 and if the recruitment strategy is any difference (though of course can’t really start until we know what league we’ll be in!!)
James
Far as I understand as long as all Covid Regulations are scrapped on June 21st we should be in a better situation.
At the moment a young Super League player has to give up full time training with his parent club to come and train part time and play with Widnes because they are separate Covid bubbles.
When Covid Regulations are scrapped hopefully June 21st a young Super League player should be able to train full time with his parent club and also play for Widnes.
This is a far more attractive proposition for a young Super League player.
Is this correct, your understanding.
If you remember back to the last spell in the Championship, we were able to get good players mid-season that made a difference: think about Moran, Wilkes, James in 06, Penny, Hall and Pickersgill in 09.
It seems like that kind of thing isn't happening this season which is compounding our issues.
Robson has played well by and large for Widnes so I wouldn't necessarily put it on him.
But I think the comments of a good team and a proven coach tell a story, for sure.
Those comments about team and coach stand out CJ. Also when we added the players you mentioned we were adding them to a base squad that was better than todays.
The Vicar
If you remember back to the last spell in the Championship, we were able to get good players mid-season that made a difference: think about Moran, Wilkes, James in 06, Penny, Hall and Pickersgill in 09. It seems like that kind of thing isn’t happening this season which is compounding our issues. Robson has played well by and large for Widnes so I wouldn’t necessarily put it on him. But I think the comments of a good team and a proven coach tell a story, for sure.
Where are these comments? And if you look at the Widnes championship squads of 06/07, the quality is incomprehensible compared to today, it seemed like you could just sign good champions players without worrying where you get them from.
“I am really excited to be here – Bradford is a massive club I always followed them in my childhood and it is a really good opportunity for me to put some good performances in and work under John Kear,” said Robson.
This is a quote from the Bradford web site announcing Robson's loan signing. I think people are putting a slant on comments to suit their own narrative.
He also said this about his time at Widnes:
"I have very high respect for everyone at Widnes as they are a great club." People seem to overlook this comment.
Maybe the fact is that Warrington and possibly Robson wanted a full time training environment that he will get at Bradford. Bad loss for Widnes and good signing for Bradford. Let's move on.