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Best/worst props

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(@spike-island-90)
Honorable Member

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Was never a massive fan of Pyke myself, he never really fitted our style at the time, for me.Mike O’Neill used to cop it from the boo boys on the terraces when he was a youngster but he turned out to be a great forward and servant to the club.I think the older fans could’nt take to his style of veering off to an angle when taking the ball up.Hardly ever involved in fights or scuffles either, just got on with the game.I’ll vote for him as second row.

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I think Mike was not only a really good player but I think he hit his peak playing second row later in his career personally. I think he played like a modem second row, with his running style and movement.

Not here to be disparaging towards Ste, a great player, a forward who was actually multi skilled unlike today. But, with his heigh and frame, I don’t think he’d be able to make in the modern game now.

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Posted : 15/11/2020 1:14 pm
(@sinbad)
Noble Member

Kevin Tamati never made the short list but there's always the 'other' option.Undecided about KT myself.Came over with a fearsome reputation but was a bit of an anti climax in reality.Hard as nails yes but not the tackle breaking, powerful runner I was expecting.Steady player, no better than Ste O'Neill really.

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Posted : 15/11/2020 1:35 pm
(@sinbad)
Noble Member

You could literally choose three different line ups and they would all be good teams.There's also lots of variations in position- Eric Hughes centre/ stand off, Joe Lydon wing/ centre, Mick Adams second row/ loose forward, Mike O'Neill prop/ second row.Kurt was a great prop but I'd say his best days for Widnes were around 85 - 87 when we won nothing and he was often second row.He was peak at this time.

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Posted : 15/11/2020 6:03 pm
(@spike-island-90)
Honorable Member

You could literally choose three different line ups and they would all be good teams.There’s also lots of variations in position- Eric Hughes centre/ stand off, Joe Lydon wing/ centre, Mick Adams second row/ loose forward, Mike O’Neill prop/ second row.Kurt was a great prop but I’d say his best days for Widnes were around 85 – 87 when we won nothing and he was often second row.He was peak at this time.

 

Be interesting to see who they choose at 13, Douggie should get it over Vinny, but ideally you would like to see Vinny and Adam’s moved to 11 and 12

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Posted : 15/11/2020 6:43 pm
(@royston-vasey)
Honorable Member

Kurt and iron Mike O’Neill for me I don’t know how anyone can look beyond Mike, made his debut at 16 in the front row !! Played over 400 times for the club and won just about everything possible, was a mainstay in some of our greatest sides

i thought, like Harvey Howard later on, that Mike made his debut on the wing.
he was very underrated for years and - like Glynn Shaw - suffered from dodgy hands occasionally . Like I say under rated by some and a great clubman, imho.

On the subject of Big Jim, he undoubtedly had a violent streak but at that time most teams had players who were of the same cloth. He just happened to be more efficient at it (for want of a better phrase). He brought a presence to the team that I can’t recall before hand going back to when I started watching in the early 60’s. Technically he was under rated too - he had very good hands and there was, when he concentrated on playing rugby, more to his game than just smacking people.

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Posted : 16/11/2020 10:51 am
(@royston-vasey)
Honorable Member

I’d love the club to do a similar survey for the best clubman in each position. The unsung heroes over the years - the results would make interesting reading.

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Posted : 16/11/2020 10:52 am
(@sinbad)
Noble Member

On the subject of Big Jim, he undoubtedly had a violent streak but at that time most teams had players who were of the same cloth. He just happened to be more efficient at it (for want of a better phrase). He  had more to his game than just smacking people.

And just happened to be much bigger than his victims.

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Posted : 16/11/2020 11:05 am
(@sinbad)
Noble Member

Harvey Howard, forgot about him.I remember something about when he was in dispute and staying away from the club and Phil Larder went round to his parents house to speak to him but was told he was'nt home.Phil was invited in for a cup of tea in the lounge whilst Howard was hiding upstairs.Or did I dream that ?

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Posted : 16/11/2020 11:09 am
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

Many forget that BJ had pace.

I well remember a game at the old Huddersfield ground. We kicked ahead and Jim overtook their centre in the chase for the ball! His looping run starting behind our rh defence took him into the left centre position to take the ball!

We played a young Wigan side at Naughton Park and their forwards hammered Jim, with no retaliation. Asked why he hadn't clouted somebody he said they were only young lads, what else could they do? Seasoned props trying to intimidate were a different story!

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Posted : 16/11/2020 11:40 am
 ma
(@ma)
Trusted Member

I’d love the club to do a similar survey for the best clubman in each position. The unsung heroes over the years – the results would make interesting reading.

 

At 5

“Who. Needs. Off-iahhh when we’ve got Peter Smith”. Crazy player.

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Posted : 16/11/2020 6:22 pm
(@anotherposter)
Reputable Member

Kurt and iron Mike O’Neill for me I don’t know how anyone can look beyond Mike, made his debut at 16 in the front row !! Played over 400 times for the club and won just about everything possible, was a mainstay in some of our greatest sides

i thought, like Harvey Howard later on, that Mike made his debut on the wing. he was very underrated for years and – like Glynn Shaw – suffered from dodgy hands occasionally . Like I say under rated by some and a great clubman, imho. On the subject of Big Jim, he undoubtedly had a violent streak but at that time most teams had players who were of the same cloth. He just happened to be more efficient at it (for want of a better phrase). He brought a presence to the team that I can’t recall before hand going back to when I started watching in the early 60’s. Technically he was under rated too – he had very good hands and there was, when he concentrated on playing rugby, more to his game than just smacking people.

 

You could very well be correct, i was only a kid at the time but do recall him the following season playing S/Row and in the front row, ive also seen Mike switch to the wing in a few games in the 80's and seem to recall him going 50 or 60 meters for a try in one game.

Harvey Howard was actually a winger who switched to the front row like Tony Clubb and Joe Bullock

With regard to your other comment, although this thread says "best/worst" the club poll is for an all time 17 which i dont necessarily see as the best 17 (which would be impossible to pick) for example Steve Rogers may well be the best centre that played for the club (in his half game) but he doesnt come anywhere near Aspey for what he did for the club or as sinbad pointed out Gregory was a fantastic player but didnt contribute anywhere near as much a Dave Hulme, they are the players i vote for

 

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Posted : 16/11/2020 10:54 pm
(@royston-vasey)
Honorable Member

On the subject of Big Jim, he undoubtedly had a violent streak but at that time most teams had players who were of the same cloth. He just happened to be more efficient at it (for want of a better phrase). He had more to his game than just smacking people.

And just happened to be much bigger than his victims.

Not too sure about that To be honest, the likes of John Greengrass, Bill Ashurst, Mike Nicholas, Jimmy Thompson, Phil Lowe etc weren’t that small.

In the case of the first two mentioned : Greengrass had broken Dave Willicombe’s arm with foul play and was laughing at Jim as he went over for a try for NZ and Ashurst had taken it upon himself to get Mills sent off. Mills was, by modern standards, a dirty player without doubt but he was sinned against just as much as he sinned.

The worst thing he ever did, imho, was flatten the young Warrington prop (Whitaker ?). He was a kid who was just starting to make a name for himself. He came through ‘on the burst’ and Jim made no attempt to tackle him - just hit him with a straight right to the jaw. Knocked him out cold. Jim didn’t even wait for the ref - just turned around and walked off the pitch. To all intents and purpose it ended Whittaker’s career.

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Posted : 16/11/2020 11:00 pm
(@sinbad)
Noble Member

Does'nt matter how big Greengrass was, makes no difference lying on the ground.You can't even begin to justify that, should've been banned sine die.I am not here to knock one of our greats Royston, a club legend in fact.Also I am not one for reminiscing all misty eyed about the rascal  Big Jim going for another early bath.

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Posted : 17/11/2020 10:06 am
(@sinbad)
Noble Member

Second Row options now up.Cleal, P.Hulme, Eyres, Nicholls, M.O'Neill, Gorley, Koloto, Foran, Adams, Measures.Impossible.

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Posted : 23/11/2020 11:30 am
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

Second Row options now up.Cleal, P.Hulme, Eyres, Nicholls, M.O’Neill, Gorley, Koloto, Foran, Adams, Measures.Impossible.

Impossible, as you say Sinbad. Much depends on the team they played with, the state of the club when they played etc.

Measures, on his day, playing off Vinty with Arthur Hughes running off Collier, IN THE SAME PACK. Heaven!!!!! One regularly used as a picture of Vinty shows Measures, backing up as ever, with a tacklers arms already around his waist beacause they knew Vinty would get it to him!

At the end of the day its fun, just to name our hospitality boxes. At least it helps make the ground still feel like its ours!

The Aussies do a 'Greats Day' with past players assembled and receiving the applause. Good chance to reminisce and explain to youngsters what that old codger was like in his twenties!

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Posted : 23/11/2020 11:51 am
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