Unless the club as a total re-set forthwith by employing an experienced coach , task master and an accountant to oversee spending and get value for money from the playing side we may after a glimmer of hope have a further sad time . Please Board take some action !
I am not sure that an accountant would be able to offer anything on player recruitment, other than to advise on how much money we could afford.
Didn't we have an experienced coach in Sheens who oversaw the recruitment of many of the players in the squad? I am presuming - possibly a big assumption - that the physical condition of a player is a key consideration in signing players, certainly the more experienced players who have been around for a while and, in particular, any with a history of injuries.
Unfortunately Frank when you start using words like presuming and assumption you are entering the world of guesswork and clearly this is what the club is doing .
Not only do accountants decide how much money you can afford they would forensically calculate with the coach whether we were getting value for money , for example establishing the facts about Tomkins and whether we can continue paying him on the basis that he is going to benefit us later and is therefore worth the expenditure , or conversely take a decision that he will not and proceed accordingly .
Unfortunately Frank when you start using words like presuming and assumption you are entering the world of guesswork and clearly this is what the club is doing . Not only do accountants decide how much money you can afford they would forensically calculate with the coach whether we were getting value for money , for example establishing the facts about Tomkins and whether we can continue paying him on the basis that he is going to benefit us later and is therefore worth the expenditure , or conversely take a decision that he will not and proceed accordingly .
Not sure how you conclude (or assume) that the club does not take account of many factors, including fitness record, when players are signed, based on my comments. In fact, I am pretty sure that potential signings are given a medical check before they are signed.
Whether or not we continue paying Tomkins would be more a medical and legal question, rather than an accountant ie is he likely to fully recover from the injury and, if so when; and whether we could pay off his contract early and, if so, under what terms.
I am not sure that an accountant's opinion on the likely benefit of a player to the club, would carry much weight. In any event, I would assume (or guess) that the club has an Accountant.
I’m going to rock the boat here but SF is essentially on his own, who are is staff and what experience do they have? And I bet no one can me the s and c coach? There isn’t one, SF may not be everyone’s cup of tea but he has been given no help / support from the board. As well as SF I can think of at least 3 names in the town that have coached semi pro that could assist or help on match day, granted I know people wouldn’t have one of them near the club, just trying to show there are people out there that won’t cost the earth and can contribute.
I’m going to rock the boat here but SF is essentially on his own, who are is staff and what experience do they have? And I bet no one can me the s and c coach? There isn’t one, SF may not be everyone’s cup of tea but he has been given no help / support from the board. As well as SF I can think of at least 3 names in the town that have coached semi pro that could assist or help on match day, granted I know people wouldn’t have one of them near the club, just trying to show there are people out there that won’t cost the earth and can contribute.
Kieran Oates?
I’m going to rock the boat here but SF is essentially on his own, who are is staff and what experience do they have? And I bet no one can me the s and c coach? There isn’t one, SF may not be everyone’s cup of tea but he has been given no help / support from the board. As well as SF I can think of at least 3 names in the town that have coached semi pro that could assist or help on match day, granted I know people wouldn’t have one of them near the club, just trying to show there are people out there that won’t cost the earth and can contribute.
Kieran Oates?
Ryan O'Brien: Assistant Coach
Neil Belshaw and Kellen Wood: First Team Support Staff
Kieran Oates: Strength and Conditioning Coach
David Bahadoor: Club Physio
Haroon Rashood: Club Doctor
Liam Clark: Matchday Operations
Lauren Garner: Pyschological Insights and Support
See News item on club website on 2 February.
I'm not sure accountancy is necessarily the problem, I think the board all understand business and figures.
I think the problem is more they don't necessarily have the Rugby knowledge, so it is imperative that the CEO bridges that gap.....
In terms of my earlier point of the losing culture, I get the fact that many of the players have changed over the past 3 or 4 years, but if you look at Sunderland they changed players and still slid down, same with Halifax after their relegation from SL in 2003. Maybe losing is a bit strong but I don't believe they are as professional as possible certainly.
I’m going to rock the boat here but SF is essentially on his own, who are is staff and what experience do they have? And I bet no one can me the s and c coach? There isn’t one, SF may not be everyone’s cup of tea but he has been given no help / support from the board. As well as SF I can think of at least 3 names in the town that have coached semi pro that could assist or help on match day, granted I know people wouldn’t have one of them near the club, just trying to show there are people out there that won’t cost the earth and can contribute.
Kieran Oates?
Ryan O’Brien: Assistant Coach Neil Belshaw and Kellen Wood: First Team Support Staff Kieran Oates: Strength and Conditioning Coach David Bahadoor: Club Physio Haroon Rashood: Club Doctor Liam Clark: Matchday Operations Lauren Garner: Pyschological Insights and Support See News item on club website on 2 February.
Thank you, schoolboy error not looking on the website but I did have a look yesterday while it was down so that’s my excuse 🙈😃
I still don’t think that staff is good enough or experienced but that’s my personal opinion and understand if it’s no one else’s.
Perhaps somewhat off thread, but this is my first post! Having worked for the club, albeit pre-2000, I think a massive focus should be placed on mindset, and what I call “mental fitness”. Widnes could finish at least mid table with a fresh attitude. How do you do that? You may recall Silvain Houles in interview post match referring, if I heard him correctly, to T.O.X111 still needing to improve further by focussing on what is going on in their heads. So true! If your “belief system” is shot, with few or no on pitch leaders to energise and trigger interdependence between team mates, you have lost the battle before it’s begun. A I understand it, this is Lauren Garner’s dept., as sports psychologist. If I were Simon, I would be placing plenty of emphasis here. She is very well qualified when you study her Linkedin profile, so should understand these principles. However, it has to remain a central focus alongside skills and fitness. I arranged a full time professional “Peak Performance Coach” to carry out sessions with the Vikings squad twice before crucial matches, which they won convincingly, and players said they felt great about themselves, and handled setbacks within the game confidently. This is very specific performance coaching. You’re releasing your self motivation as to why you do what you do as a player.It’s not about getting your coach to motivate you. A very different thing. Surprisingly, that self-motivation is not usually about money. Yes, you need sufficient ability and definitely appropriate fitness, but it’s amazing how FIT YOU FEEL when you feel so capable in your mind! Saints have for years had three or four key on field talkers/inspirational characters. One of them is always a half back. Players from this squad need to step up as influencers- probably initially defensively, but not exclusively – or make way for others, who would need to be very carefully recruited, depending on resources, if any. Here’s to turning the season around with largely the existing squad.
Hi Phil, nice to see you are still getting a wage!
I think a massive focus should be placed on performing the basics of rugby league correctly. If we could do this it might be surprising how many things would then fall into place.
I think a massive focus should be placed on performing the basics of rugby league correctly. If we could do this it might be surprising how many things would then fall into place.
Such as ? Tackling, passing and kicking ? Surprised they haven't thought of it
Thanks for that 97 👍🏻
A Cape. To put your mind at rest, I’m not Phil Cheers
Whooosssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I don't agree that the lack of pre-season friendlies is the issue. The games against West Wales and Whitehaven were virtually pre-season games in themselves the way they went.
I will admit to being surprised when SF said he didn't have any issues with the players fitness. But then he is far more qualified than me to make that judgement.
With our strongest 17, I thought we could compete for third place. Losing Tomkins out of that 17 was a huge blow, and then to have Cook and Jewitt barely available to has compounded that.
There's no short-term fix in my opinion. You sack the coach, the new one loses his first six games, what then? Sack him as well?
I don’t agree that the lack of pre-season friendlies is the issue. The games against West Wales and Whitehaven were virtually pre-season games in themselves the way they went. I will admit to being surprised when SF said he didn’t have any issues with the players fitness. But then he is far more qualified than me to make that judgement. With our strongest 17, I thought we could compete for third place. Losing Tomkins out of that 17 was a huge blow, and then to have Cook and Jewitt barely available to has compounded that. There’s no short-term fix in my opinion. You sack the coach, the new one loses his first six games, what then? Sack him as well?
I absolutely disappointed that this team clearly is not as good as we first thought (in terms challenging for top 5). However, I think people need to make an distinction, there’s a difference between not been good enough for top 5 and been so bad , that you are essentially putting in the worst performances of any team in the division. Yes, lose to Toulouse by 40 points but to lose to them by 70, regardless of ineptitude of the squad, is simply unforgivable and I am sure an amateur team would have put a better fight up. That Salford game wasn’t not an anomaly, even an extremely low-budget Swinton team put a better up against a far superior team (wire).
Yes blame the board for poor signings but ultimately there are players on that pitch who simply do not care and are just going through the motions. The issue, is the attitude of the players, not their ability.