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A return to super league

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(@frankg)
Noble Member

I believe that the IMG exercise is well intended and may well encourage clubs to invest funds in the hope of achieving Grade A, but is it all a con to ensure that a limited number of clubs continue to get the biggest share of central funding. 

Someone asked on here, what would happen if number of Clubs achieving Grade A was more than expected, maybe 20 clubs? The answer to that is that the criteria would be changed to limit the number of Clubs in the "elite" league. so that the "top" clubs would continue to get the largest pay-out from central funding. 

The other part of the IMG plan as I understand it is to grow the popularity of the game, including at International level, and to promote the game to attract more spectators and investors across the UK. Perhaps we should hear more about those plans, rather than a pretty meaningless spreadsheet exercise that will only help a few clubs. 

If Championship and League 1 Clubs are to have any chance of reaching the "elite" level and sustaining that position, then there needs to be a fairer distribution of funds, which is unlikely to happen.

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Posted : 01/11/2023 2:09 pm
(@ringo-bells)
Trusted Member

@frankg Totally agree.

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Posted : 01/11/2023 2:33 pm
 RB
(@rb)
Estimable Member

The club used to own the bowler they sold it for £105,000 in the early 1990's to raise money at a time of financial crisis. They sold Naughton Park to the council for £500,000. The council then built the new stadium. We were told we never get into Super league without a modern stadium. They told this to teams in Yorkshire but then forgot about it. They also told us we would not get a Cat 1 Academy Licence. Said the same a bit later to the likes of Bradford and Hull KR before again changing their mind.

One option would be to try and buy back the bowler and to use this before the match, after the match and during the week to raise revenue. The crown green bowlers use the buildings on the side wall adjacent to the car park not the main bowler club.

This is effectively what Wigan do with Robin Park next the DW that's why the players parade down the running track before the match to keep people spending before going to the Stadium. Australian Clubs have seperate Leagues Clubs away from the stadium which generate huge revenues (although mainly through gambling). 

Widnes would be on a much smaller standing but that's the nature of the club at the moment. But would save splitting revenue. Runcorn Linnets generate up to £3000 (revenue not profit) a match over the bar on gates of 700 each match day. 

Options are limited to be honest. But no point to just give up. 

This post was modified 4 months ago by RB
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Posted : 01/11/2023 5:13 pm
Mckviking reacted
PaulieWalnuts
(@pauliewalnuts)
Honorable Member

Posted by: @frankg

I believe that the IMG exercise is well intended and may well encourage clubs to invest funds in the hope of achieving Grade A, but is it all a con to ensure that a limited number of clubs continue to get the biggest share of central funding. 

Someone asked on here, what would happen if number of Clubs achieving Grade A was more than expected, maybe 20 clubs? The answer to that is that the criteria would be changed to limit the number of Clubs in the "elite" league. so that the "top" clubs would continue to get the largest pay-out from central funding. 

The other part of the IMG plan as I understand it is to grow the popularity of the game, including at International level, and to promote the game to attract more spectators and investors across the UK. Perhaps we should hear more about those plans, rather than a pretty meaningless spreadsheet exercise that will only help a few clubs. 

If Championship and League 1 Clubs are to have any chance of reaching the "elite" level and sustaining that position, then there needs to be a fairer distribution of funds, which is unlikely to happen.

 

You do realise Frank that just because you are rated at Grade-A one year, you can lose that status if you do not keep up the 'Pillar Scores'. Obviously it is easier to maintain those levels with better funding, but you can't blame the 7 G-A clubs for having higher scores than clubs like Wakey, Cas and Ourselves, who have come out as 'Bs' for not hitting the same heights. In London's case, they are, at present 24th on the table, yet are in SL. On that footing they are going to be automatically relegated for 2025. I've a funny feeling that after next years assessment, they will rise dramatically up the list (genuinely).

 

Paulie xx

 

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Posted : 01/11/2023 5:19 pm
(@sinbad)
Noble Member

I'm surprised London were graded 24th.It would take a quantum leap for them to get 12th place grading.That would be far too obvious.Next season is a year of friendlies for them.

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Posted : 01/11/2023 5:54 pm
(@mckviking)
Prominent Member

@rb I honestly think that buying the bowler and making it profitable is achievable, maybe even the possibility of that happening would encourage the council to give widnes a better deal on rent or more takings from match day and events midweek at the stadium. I don’t know what the relationship between club and council is? Is it landlord/tenant or more personal and friendly?

At the Monday meetings does the club ask for suggestions from fans regarding this type of thing 

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Topic starter Posted : 01/11/2023 10:12 pm
(@mckviking)
Prominent Member

@cowshed sorry I missed your reply, that’s a shocking turnout, 2 teams! What schools turned up? 
those players will hopefully have enjoyed their experience and will continue to participate/support rugby league

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Topic starter Posted : 01/11/2023 10:20 pm
(@going-for-the-line)
Active Member

If Hull KR are a Grade A club then there's hope for most of the Championship yet! Likewise if Wakefield are still the 11th best side RL has to offer then it isn't such a quantum leap to enter the top 12 at some stage. 

I saw a quote from the RFL this week something like "If we get to 20 Grade A clubs then the grading system has done it's job". If that is the aim what happens when that point is reached? Seemingly a 20 team top flight would be unworkable so what would you do with 20 Grade A clubs that apparently can't be relegated?

Unless you got a TV deal for a seamless 2 division format similar to cricket where going down financially has little impact other than you can't win the main trophy in the "SL 2" for a season, there'd have to be some sort of pyramid. 

Other route is to say that if you haven't made Grade A by 2030 then it will probably never happen and Dewsbury, Swinton, Rochdale et al aren't going to be in the equation so you bring in a single division NRL type format and the Rochdales and Dewsburys become official feeder sides for the top division in a Queensland/NSW cup type scenario. However that structure would likely lead to an uneven fixture list which for me endangers sporting integrity. 

I just wonder if any thought has been put into the end game for this system? As it's the RFL I suspect not! 

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Posted : 03/11/2023 6:31 pm
(@jdgsport)
Prominent Member Admin

The biggest obstacle is getting past 12 Grade A clubs. Because if that does happen, then something will have to happen that the Super League clubs have been fighting against for the past decade - giving up a further slice of their pie.

Unless IMG or whoever can increase the broadcast deal (which has declined by 40% in the past three years), I can't see the Super League clubs voting to increase past 12.

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Posted : 04/11/2023 12:19 am
(@mckviking)
Prominent Member

I could see the 2 leagues of 10 becoming the way forward which would allow a larger financial share amongst the second tier clubs and all surplus clubs would be national conference. I’d like to see both divisions have improved tv deals by 2026, this would bring in more sponsorship and make having academies sustainable. Maybe a free to stream national conference and pro academy deal. I think more international tests will be needed 

This post was modified 4 months ago by Mckviking
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Topic starter Posted : 04/11/2023 2:56 am
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

Regarding financial management generally, just how can Wigan, more than once, go into the red by £500,000 and still tell us how to manage our money?

And on the stadium build, maintenance was becoming a bigger and bigger burden and, after the soccer tragedies, stadium safety (all seater stadiums etc.) was really becoming a major factor. 

Of course there were SL clubs with worse grounds but the RFL didn't seem to notice them!  

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Posted : 04/11/2023 7:36 am
Northstar
(@northstar)
Trusted Member

The council wouldn't sell the ground even if they were offered what they paid for it. They make money from it (albeit probably not all that much) and more crucially, it is one of the key facilities in the borough for health, mental welfare and community fitness activity.

Put simply, they have to keep it because government demands they put a certain amount of infrastructure in place for those things - it is proven that facilities like the stadium and it's fitness centre keep more people out of hospitals and therefore can't be just bought and sold like a second hand car if they need a few quid.

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Posted : 04/11/2023 5:35 pm
(@mckviking)
Prominent Member

I see that the clubs widiot events are putting on a bingo night at the parklands to try and raise money for the club 

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Topic starter Posted : 04/11/2023 8:21 pm
(@torn-sock-1)
Estimable Member

Posted by: @mckviking

@rb I honestly think that buying the bowler and making it profitable is achievable, maybe even the possibility of that happening would encourage the council to give widnes a better deal on rent or more takings from match day and events midweek at the stadium. I don’t know what the relationship between club and council is? Is it landlord/tenant or more personal and friendly?

At the Monday meetings does the club ask for suggestions from fans regarding this type of thing 

If the club don't have a pot to pee in why do you think it's achievable to buy a pub? IF they did why do you think Widnes earning more money would make the council give them a better deal?? Ahh you're richer, so pay less rent?!

Why do you think the owners of the Bowler would want to sell it in the first place, even if Widnes magically acquired lots of money to splash on a pub?

Just a few immediate problems I see with this daft idea.

 

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Posted : 06/11/2023 10:34 am
(@widnes77)
Estimable Member

@sandgroper what have Wigan said regarding how we spend money SG?

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Posted : 08/11/2023 5:24 am
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