Toronto Back In?

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  • #4266
    CJ91
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    Suggestions from Tony Smith that it’s likely Toronto will be reinstated in SL next season.

    What a shock……

    I presume they will get a 12 point deduction and be subject to special measures?

    Or maybe not……

    Nothing like a bit of consistency!

    #4268
    Frankg
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    Also mentioned that this is the reason for Neil Hudgell walking away from HKR.

    Just have to see what promised riches are placed before RFL/SL by the new investors in TWP and whether they waive their demand for a share of the Sky money. Maybe even Sky could be putting pressure on to keep the International big city dream going for another season.

    I agree with others that if TWP are allowed to stay in SL with no points deduction, it will be a disgrace. Will the new investors in TWP want guarantees against relegation in 2021, otherwise we could be faced with the same situation in 2021, with no guarantee of international travel enabling them to play “home” games in Canada in 2021.

    This may well see the end of Beaumont’s dream of SL for Leigh. Will he walk away like Hudgell?

    Like others have said, maybe clubs like Widnes should forget about SL and let it develop into a hybrid of American football. The majority of RL clubs not in SL  and also Salford, HKR and probably six others who will surely see that they will have no future in a big city SL, can then concentrate on trying to save the game of rugby league in the UK.

    You never know the RFL may surprise us all and make the right decision for the future of the game.

    #4270
    sandgroper
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    Can’t honestly see why a ‘decision’ is required. Teams have gone into admin already and have been summarily deducted points,  so what’s the difference?

    If things turn out as predicted it effectively marks a change in organisation and marks a break between SL and the rest. That at least would be a decision that has long been awaited.

    Strikes me that if someone with a real interest in the game, and some cash to splash, or simply disenchanted clubs, wanted to make a statement and make the change really substantial they could move to take over the Championship/League 1, running it as a PT operation maybe under the 1895 Founder’s Laws!

    SL clubs could be given a period to consider their position and decide to leave or stay and compete with the city expansion. May be a bit extreme but if people like Hudgell walk away the game will suffer.

    #4276
    CJ91
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    I think it is a simple situation for Toronto.

    They either come back into SL with a deduction or go down.

    If they are unable to continue in SL then a mini-licensing takes place, probably promoting TO XIII or London.

    #4277
    sandgroper
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    The whole mess makes RL look like a shambles making decisions off the seat of their pants. If a club was run in the same way Rimmer would be jumping on them!

    #4283
    Spelly
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    I’ve mentioned this on other forums, so apologies if you read it there, but………….

    If they are re-admitted, and in my opinion, that is still highly doubtful, whoever owns / runs the new franchise, the brand is now (and will remain) tarnished. When approached, potential players are bound to think “Will I get paid?” “Is it worth the risk?”

    I’ve been to Toronto twice with the Lions, and loved it both times. The fans there love the game, they made me / us feel very welcome, and it’s them I feel particularly sorry for, coz they’ve done nowt wrong.

    A twelve point deduction, would 99% guarantee relegation, meaning teams like Wakey / Hull KR would have an “easier” season, which is summat I’m sure they wouldn’t argue with, so…….

    If (prob when) they went down, would they survive to play Championship in the next campaign? I’m not sure they would, faaaaaar from it!

    When the call is finally made, whatever decision they come up with, some (a lot?) of people are gonna strongly disagree, so the RFL / SL, are in a no win scenario, and I don’t envy ’em one bit!

    What would I do if I were in charge? I honestly don’t know what’d be the least unfair decision I’d eventually arrive at!

    Spelly.

    " ---- and then on the eighth day, God created Rugby League."

    #4285
    Frankg
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    I’ve mentioned this on other forums, so apologies if you read it there, but…………. If they are re-admitted, and in my opinion, that is still highly doubtful, whoever owns / runs the new franchise, the brand is now (and will remain) tarnished. When approached, potential players are bound to think “Will I get paid?” “Is it worth the risk?” I’ve been to Toronto twice with the Lions, and loved it both times. The fans there love the game, they made me / us feel very welcome, and it’s them I feel particularly sorry for, coz they’ve done nowt wrong. A twelve point deduction, would 99% guarantee relegation, meaning teams like Wakey / Hull KR would have an “easier” season, which is summat I’m sure they wouldn’t argue with, so……. If (prob when) they went down, would they survive to play Championship in the next campaign? I’m not sure they would, faaaaaar from it! When the call is finally made, whatever decision they come up with, some (a lot?) of people are gonna strongly disagree, so the RFL / SL, are in a no win scenario, and I don’t envy ’em one bit! What would I do if I were in charge? I honestly don’t know what’d be the least unfair decision I’d eventually arrive at! Spelly.

    The thing is that Rimmer is paid £300,000 to make these decisions and Elstone £400,000? – or at least provide professional advice to the people who make the decisions on behalf of the clubs. As someone mentioned, this probably comes down to what Wigan and St Helens want.

    I would take a hard line with TWP with a minimum 12pt deduction.

    The SL/RFL need to take a long hard look at the future of rugby league in the UK and where the NA expansion is taking the game. If they still see some benefit and potential long term growth of the UK game (not a potential windfall for a few clubs from a NA tv deal) with TWP, Ottawa, NY etc as part of the UK set up, then they would give TWP another season in SL – and possibly ask for a bond to cover 3 months wages.

    If not, refuse TWP entry and face the legal challenge from Ottawa if their entry into League 1 is rescinded. There is no guarantee that Ottawa will be able to play any “home” games in Canada in 2021 in any event, so they may well face the same financial difficulties, although they will have a more sensible player wage bill.

    #4287
    CJ91
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    I know what you are saying Spelly about the points deduction, but I think there is a fairness to other clubs too, in the sense that other (I daresay heartlands) clubs would be severely punished for this sort of thing.

    All clubs must be subject to the same rules unless you basically say we (SL/RFL) are so pro-expansion that they get a different set of rules to deal with.

    I mean lets not forget Crusaders moved from one end of Wales to another, had massive VISA issues and yet stayed in SL. Yet Toulouse have done everything by the book and are still not in SL.

    #4290
    sandgroper
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    I know what you are saying Spelly about the points deduction, but I think there is a fairness to other clubs too, in the sense that other (I daresay heartlands) clubs would be severely punished for this sort of thing. All clubs must be subject to the same rules unless you basically say we (SL/RFL) are so pro-expansion that they get a different set of rules to deal with. I mean lets not forget Crusaders moved from one end of Wales to another, had massive VISA issues and yet stayed in SL. Yet Toulouse have done everything by the book and are still not in SL.

    And that is the rub CJ91. It all comes down to how Rimmer and Elstone see the SL developing. If they want NA teams or even EU sides in the SL they have to make that decision and set out rules to cover all sensible possibilities, of which Admin/ Collapse is one.

    I think that they were happy to allow it to go on, hoping that the NA teams would climb into SL and that is that, no groans from clubs beaten ‘fair and square’. That avoids them having to make their case to the league(s) making the choice of who stays in SL and upsetting the likes of Hudgell, with all that  that could mean. It really is a return to the Lindsay hope of large wealthy clubs.

    There would be a lot to gain for comparably low budget clubs, like us, leaving SL and making the Championship what it always was. If it was run properly I am sure crowds would improve with the competitive nature of the games. If my suggestion above went through I believe that there would be a few realistic SL clubs who would bail out of SL.

    In addition it seems highly likely that the Sky money will reduce and therefore Championship clubs dependency on it needs to reduce. Quite possibly Championship clubs will be tied to the RFL/SL management with precious little benefit.

    #4291
    Frankg
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    Until you mentioned it Sandgroper, I had not given a thought that the actual name of the game “Rugby League” has all but disappeared from Sky. It is all about Super League, as if no part of the game exists outside SL.

    It may well be that 125 years after those clubs walked away from the RFU to form the Northern Union over payment to players, there may well be another breakaway over funding, with Championship/League 1 clubs splitting from SL. It would need a benefactor(s) to fund the breakaway short-term to cover the lost central funding. The game of rugby league could then be promoted and developed as a local community sport.

    All very unlikely to happen, but a thought. The RFL need think beyond the SL and consider the the game of rugby league as a whole.  I can see the Championship developing into a really competitive league. With the right people involved, surely it is not impossible to get a tv deal from one of the Channels to cover at least the funding currently distributed to the lower leagues from the Sky deal.

    #4293
    Spelly
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    Some interesting, and honest replies, so……..

    Can I move it on a bit please, and ask another question that’s almost impossible to answer fairly!

    If (when?) the Wolfpack don’t make it to the start line, and SL insist on a twelve team comp, who’d replace ’em at the top table? And more to the point, who’d be good enough to make a fist of it?

    London, who were unfortunate to be relegated? Toulouse, to give the game a boost across La Manche? Fev? Leythers? Would you mob be in with a shout?

    Unbiased answers only please! LOL.

    Spelly.

    " ---- and then on the eighth day, God created Rugby League."

    #4294
    Frankg
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    Some interesting, and honest replies, so…….. Can I move it on a bit please, and ask another question that’s almost impossible to answer fairly! If (when?) the Wolfpack don’t make it to the start line, and SL insist on a twelve team comp, who’d replace ’em at the top table? And more to the point, who’d be good enough to make a fist of it? London, who were unfortunate to be relegated? Toulouse, to give the game a boost across La Manche? Fev? Leythers? Would you mob be in with a shout? Unbiased answers only please! LOL. Spelly.

    My guess is that TWP will stay in SL with a small points deduction  and not get any share of Sky money.

    If by chance they are relegated to the Championship, there are only two contenders to replace them in my view. London as the most likely in that they are called London and were replaced by TWP, or Featherstone (small town club not meeting super dooper city league vision) who were beaten in the play-off final.

    I am not convince that TWP would survive if relegated to the Championship.

    #4300
    sandgroper
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    Fev have become a part of Leeds and shouldn’t be part of a promo race.

     

    Again it is firefighting and not making the long term decisions that are required.

    We pay first grade salaries foe third grade management.

    #4301
    sandgroper
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    Some interesting, and honest replies, so…….. Can I move it on a bit please, and ask another question that’s almost impossible to answer fairly! If (when?) the Wolfpack don’t make it to the start line, and SL insist on a twelve team comp, who’d replace ’em at the top table? And more to the point, who’d be good enough to make a fist of it? London, who were unfortunate to be relegated? Toulouse, to give the game a boost across La Manche? Fev? Leythers? Would you mob be in with a shout? Unbiased answers only please! LOL. Spelly.

    You describe a situation which is absolutely wide open to money and influence deciding who is ‘in’ or ‘out’ of SL which is pretty much where we started with SL! Being a ‘Founder Club’ almost counts against you in today’s market place.

    It is imperative that we have an accurate vision of what the SL is to look like before we try to build it. As it is any Tom, Dick or Jules can drum up some cash and call their club whatever they like before applying for membership. After that cash is all that matters to Elstone and co. Sky, of course, would be happier with multi-national big city names because it sells their output.

    For our club, and most other non-SL clubs, anything that ends the interference with our league would be better than what we have atm.

    It maybe a dream but if someone like Dr K wanted to make a bid he could ‘own’ Rugby League (not SL) and have a small but healthy competition along the M62 corridor.

    #4317
    Griffin1
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    Am I correct in thinking that all 11 SL clubs have to vote in favour of Toronto being allowed in the competition.

    If this is the case, I think that by the comments coming from some other SL clubs and chairmen, it will be a hard sell and if they do not get included , it  old well see the bell ringing for time being called on the club.

    It is a total disgrace that following promise after promise , it will be 4 months without pay for all club staff later in the week.

    The proffered applicant for the franchise seems to be one of the club’s current directors or founders and would this mean that the club would remain tainted and unless all their current financial obligations were covered , would that person be deemed fit and proper ?.

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