The General Electio...
 
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The General Election

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(@spelly)
Noble Member

Liz Truss - She was PM in October '22, but in July '24, she's not even an MP!

Jacob Rees-Mogg shown the door in Somerset!

Independence in Scotland, farther away than ever!

What a shift since that caning we took in 2019!

Sunak, who only became PM coz of Truss' disastrous tenure, has a  P1, L1 record in general elections, so can he possibly survive as leader?

The icing on the cake would be if your mob come second to mine on Sunday! 🤣 

Spelly.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/07/2024 7:37 am
(@torn-sock-1)
Estimable Member

Sure I've read somewhere Starmer has this massive majority, despite getting less votes than Corbyn.
In the popular vote he got less than 34% (So 2/3's of the country didn't vote him in). It shows apathy, but also this was used against the Cons last time for balance.

Reform got over 4m votes and 4 seats, but Lib Dems got 3.5m and 71 seats

P.R is definitely not the answer, but apparently the only 2 European countries using FPTP are us and Belarus! :O 

Funny parts of the election for me. Truss out, which is exactly what she deserved & the SNP claiming there is still a mandate for an indy referendum because they have a majority of Scottish MP's in Scottish parliament, despite it being no. of votes, then no. of seats in a general election. Absolutely deluded. If they ever do win one of their votes I wonder if they will allow the opposition to challenge it every couple of years or that will be the absolute final decision...

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Posted : 05/07/2024 12:14 pm
(@spelly)
Noble Member

Posted by: @torn-sock-1

Sure I've read somewhere Starmer has this massive majority, despite getting less votes than Corbyn.
In the popular vote he got less than 34% (So 2/3's of the country didn't vote him in). It shows apathy, but also this was used against the Cons last time for balance.

Reform got over 4m votes and 4 seats, but Lib Dems got 3.5m and 71 seats

P.R is definitely not the answer, but apparently the only 2 European countries using FPTP are us and Belarus! :O 

Funny parts of the election for me. Truss out, which is exactly what she deserved & the SNP claiming there is still a mandate for an indy referendum because they have a majority of Scottish MP's in Scottish parliament, despite it being no. of votes, then no. of seats in a general election. Absolutely deluded. If they ever do win one of their votes I wonder if they will allow the opposition to challenge it every couple of years or that will be the absolute final decision...

 

If it's not first past the post (as in the Grand National) and PR's (in your opinion) not the answer, what do you suggest?

I've argued for years, that our system is unfair / outdated to all but the outright winners, and I still say that even though we've (to use another horse racing term) romped into Downing Street.

Should 10% of the votes mean 10% of the seats?

It would take someone far cleverer than yours truly to work out a fair(er) scenario than the current (ancient?) but......

Until it (if it ever?) happens, after fourteen years of Blue Rule, please allow me to gloat for a day or two! 🤣 

Spelly.

 

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Topic starter Posted : 05/07/2024 2:30 pm
(@spelly)
Noble Member

We've won (with the first past the post system) by a landslide, which I'm delighted about, but.............

We took 63% of the seats from 34% of the votes, whilst.......................

Reform have a mere five from 14%!

I wouldn't vote for Farage and Co to save my life, but........

How unfair is our constitution in its current / outdated form?

Spelly.

 
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Topic starter Posted : 05/07/2024 6:48 pm
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

@spelly 

There are so many things within the system and the country which make it 'unfair'!!! The North/South divide is unfair anyway, but it is pretty obvious that if people are not bothered to cast a vote it will never be fair!!!

The easy-out that 'they are all the same' is just a cop out for those who simply can't be arsed to read or listen and try to understand! They then get walked on!!!!

In simple terms we get what we deserve by not taking more interest in just who the politicians are. Some are rogues, true, but many are honest and earnest in trying to improve things. More people asking questions and looking more closely at who is standing for office would be a good start!!!!

The system has faults but the system can be made to work better, or even scrapped, if enough of us ask more of our elected representatives!!!!

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Posted : 06/07/2024 7:47 am
(@spelly)
Noble Member

So the Tories are looking for (yet) another leader eh?

Basically, after the caning he, and his party took on Thursday, it was inevitable, but........

I don't reckon he'll be going to a food bank any time soon, and......

Have I any sympathy for him? Not one iota! Got the job via the back door, following the Truss disaster, and has done precisely nowt for the nation during his tenure meantime! 

It's the start of a new administration, and I'll say here and now that I'll prob (defo?) not endorse every decision that'll be made my 'em, but........

After fourteen years of waiting, change is finally on the way, and it's firmly w4lcomed here in Monton!

Spelly.

 

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Topic starter Posted : 06/07/2024 2:09 pm
sandgroper reacted
(@gpo1971)
Honorable Member

It was great to see the self-serving, corrupt scumbags booted out. They're on the telly now arguing that if they'd been tougher on immigration, they'd have won. Maybe the 14 years of austerity, under-investment, lying, corruption, zero growth etc. played a part, who knows?

The hard work starts here for Labour, everything needs addressing because everything is up the creek. There's loads of money in this country if we (1) tax the super-rich further (2) make big business pay their share (3) close ALL tax loopholes. If Labour don't move towards those types of policies, they'll be playing with pennies like the Tories were, and nothing will change. The money has to come from somewhere.

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Posted : 07/07/2024 9:14 am
(@ceejay1)
Reputable Member

@spelly,  Will you be able to say that when the Union's start their strike actions again?

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Posted : 07/07/2024 12:02 pm
(@ceejay1)
Reputable Member

@spelly - Even that is possible.

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Posted : 07/07/2024 12:03 pm
(@spelly)
Noble Member

Posted by: @ceejay1

@spelly - Even that is possible.

 

Come on mate, we're a mere three days into a five years' (at least) administration, so to talk about (poss) industrial action, is more than a bit premature!

Spelly.

 

 

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Topic starter Posted : 07/07/2024 7:20 pm
(@torn-sock-1)
Estimable Member

@gpo1971 How much do you think you should tax the super rich? I know some absolutely shirk their responsibilites, but others do pay their share. Do you think it should be a certain % and if so what number? If a billionaire pays 50% on their earnings don't you think that's enough (Assuming point 3 is sorted!)?
Do you think that big businesses would just move if they were charged more?
Tax loopholes 100% shouldn't exist we're in full agreement but (Throwing up in my mouth here) Donald Trump actually was spot on. This won't change because Labour donors also benefit from these as much as the Tory donors. Do you get independent people to write up/check the rules to try and close these.

@spelly - Other countries do it in preferred order I believe. There is no perfect system, as being a hung parliament isn't any better than having 1 or the other party in all the time IMO.

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Posted : 08/07/2024 2:43 pm
(@gpo1971)
Honorable Member

Posted by: @torn-sock-1

@gpo1971 How much do you think you should tax the super rich? I know some absolutely shirk their responsibilites, but others do pay their share. Do you think it should be a certain % and if so what number? If a billionaire pays 50% on their earnings don't you think that's enough (Assuming point 3 is sorted!)?
Do you think that big businesses would just move if they were charged more?
Tax loopholes 100% shouldn't exist we're in full agreement but (Throwing up in my mouth here) Donald Trump actually was spot on. This won't change because Labour donors also benefit from these as much as the Tory donors. Do you get independent people to write up/check the rules to try and close these.

The Green party manifesto had a wealth tax proposal in it to apply 1% on assets over £10M and 2% on assets over £1B and they were talking 10s of billions of pounds in tax revenue. That is the type of policy I would expect any Labour Government to be exploring.

If big businesses are not prepared to pay their share, wave goodbye to them.

Re the loopholes, I have a mate who earns a 6-figure salary and pays the same amount of tax as someone earning £20k; via IR35. He's not doing anything wrong but this is part of the problem, these loopholes need looking at.

Anything other than policies in these directions would mean ordinary folk footing the bill OR public services remaining broken; and that would make Labour as bad as the Tories. The money has to come from somewhere, we can borrow more but not enough.

 

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Posted : 10/07/2024 11:34 am
(@torn-sock-1)
Estimable Member

@gpo1971 Most of the net worth of people is just on paper though. Not sure how that would work in principle?

All well and good until loads of jobs disappear as well. Don't disagree to an extent, but a little bit chicken and egg.

Who writes the rules, as there isn't a cat in hell's chance they don't know what they're doing, but are probably instructed by those in power to keep them in. I dare say this will have had cross party collaboration and the rules are still rubbish.

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Posted : 12/07/2024 12:51 pm
(@gpo1971)
Honorable Member

The new Govt has been in place a week and look at what they're facing; a 21% rise in Water bills that the privatised water companies are saying won't scratch the surface of what is required, prisons facing "total collapse" due to lack of investment and prisoners being released 40% into their sentences, the NHS "wrecked" according to the new Minister. This is week 1 for Labour, scratching the surface of the Tory legacy. Yet the Tories were campaigning on tax cuts and the likes of Farage don't even accept these issues as real. People need to get real in this country, stop being hoodwinked by gobsh*tes and start thinking about what's important. Taxes need to go up and we all know who should be paying.

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Posted : 12/07/2024 9:52 pm
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