I think that your argument about the name of the team should be true but it isn’t. Reading through this forum and it’s predecessors for years strongly indicates that there is a strong sense of entitlement.
I would agree with you that the club needs to decide what it wants to be - that is what I have been saying, on and off for the past three years. But, as I was referring to in my last but one post - for years and years, we haven’t had any one group capable of making the types of decisions we are talking about, let alone put a plan in place to achieve the selected outcome.
I understand the desire for us to be ‘better’ and I understand the frustration but with the personnel we have at the helm at the moment I don’t see a way to make the necessary decisions and put corrective actions in place.
I'm not disagreeing with you that there's entitlement amongst some people - what I'm saying is, strip all that out, ignore it and realistically, we should be doing better than we are.
I just think we've fallen in to the typical rugby league slump that many other lower league clubs are in - feeling sorry for themselves, bemoaning the lack of money etc, without actually doing anything about it. We might just about get away with it thanks to the council (so won't necessarily go down the harsh road of Oldham, for example), but it seems avoidable to me if the club gets its act together soon.
@jdgsport We shall just have to disagree I’m afraid.
Genuine question, what are you basing our entitlement on ? Why do you think we should be challenging for a play-off spot ? Is it our form this season ? Or last season ? Or the season before ? Is it on the revenue we are attracting through the ever so slowly dwindling spectator base ? Is it the quality of coaching or the operational / financial / marketing management ver the past 5 or 6 (or 50) years ?
The idea that “we are Widnes’ doesn’t carry the weight that some of the fans imagine it should (or does). We have slipped this season from being an average team in a poor second tier competition to being a below average team in a poor competition. Not all the problems are of our own making but we have to acknowledge what we are before we can come up with a plan of what we want to do.
Anyway, like I say I think we will just have to disagree on this one.
It's not about "we are Widnes". The name or the club is irrelevant. To anyone 30 or under, Widnes aren't a big club. It's only those that hold on to the past who think that.
Let's forget the name of the club - if there was a club who was in the top 3 attendances, fanbase size, stadium facilities, sizeable fan contributions, close to 3 big clubs for loans/young players - wouldn't you expect them to be challenging for the play-offs?
It seems to me Widnes can't decide whether it wants to permanently feel sorry for itself and have a victim mentality; or whether it wants to pretend its a big club based on the past. When the reality is, they need to find something in the middle. I don't think it's a particularly outlandish stance for Widnes to believe they should be a play-off Championship team.
James the reason we are not up there with the top three is the way the club is run it really is that simple and the only real answer. Unless this changes then nothing will.
It needs new revenue streams and we all want the same thing to be as competitive as we think we should no matter where that is championship/bottom of super league but as we’ve seen on this message board we are carrying the past with us as soon as the board mention taking over the reins from viqi there’s uproar maybe we should ask if a fans committee could help run whatever guise they come up with ? Maybe a reformed supporter club with a membership would help but if Fev fans can rebuild a stadium surely we can sort ourselves out? But it needs to be done together not separate groups bickering over who does what ? Rules regime ruined the fan base separated us all into faction where we could easily be dealt with we lost the social club as a meeting place where 15% of the fan base would be together before and after the match which was also a great time for your raffles/golden gambles to be sold we have lost all togetherness unless we act together we will continue to drift as a Halifax /Rochdale with no light at any tunnel!! Wow lot of typing for me must rest👍
Much comes down to just how much damage the 'Admin' saga did. We, collectively, avoided bankruptcy by a hair's breadth. The outcome was a Board that were new to the detailed running of a club, assisted by staff who had been involved but in totally different posts.
At that time there were persistent calls for assistance iirc. Supporters throwing their effort in to help get sponsors etc. Presumably the critics on here were all in there offering their obvious expertise, or maybe not! Most of us I guess are old enough to remember the great days and that is what we see as the team's rightful place, but that has to be earned.
We were back in a 'famous 5' scenario again after Admin and are still there in many ways. I can't recall just how long Sheffield, Fax, York and Fev have been building to get to there present quality but it hasn't been just a couple of years.
We need to stay solid and build gradually. There is a shortage of players and quality coaches and we are no bigger than any others in persuading them to throw there hand in to help. Marshall looked good for a while at Fax , but we'll just have to wait.
Really good conversation this and good to get an insight into peoples vireos about our current state and how we got there.
in the context of the start point for the discussion - the closing down of VIQI - I agree with the general opinion across the discussion that we need both more revenue streams and a way to make the ones we have stronger. The loss of one of the streams, with no indication of a solid plan of how it will be replaced,is not good news at all.
Think it fundamentally comes from the fact that over the least 10 years, we have lost overwhelmingly more games than we have won. I think this has lessened many people's patience, especially with the monotonous and repetitive nature of defeats over the past 5 years in particular.
I mean, how often have we sat here and talked about a pointless half, or a good start that didn't last long?
For me, I think the appointment of a Head Coach who can add more steel and resilience to the team, that is the first step.
@mick-george If, as you suggest, we get rid of the people who are currently running the club, who do we replace them with?
Totally agree regarding the coach, another with Vinty's charisma is what we need to inject that authority into the team, the fans and the club generally. But he didn't have a contract iirc, declaring that a handshake was enough!!
On a more practical level our next coach needs to have the will to stay for the long haul. As with Sheffield etc, even Tony Smith at Hull KR. Looking at the long haul rather than an 'instant' wonder team. If we manage to attract such an individual he will need support rather than kicking!
Usually that means 1. a massive character like Vinty, or 2. someone who has been at the top coaching but looking at a retirement project, or 3. a coach that wants to make his name, likes the facilities, can work with meagre financial resources and backs his coaching skill to achieve his and our aims.
I would probably put Finnigan in the last group. He may still make it but he will make mistakes on the way, we may have been his first. He may well have tried to change things but was unsuccessful, it isn't that easy!
In all honesty we have been struggling for years we haven't got massive resources, our brilliant VIQI depends on not many more than a thousand pensioners who are prepared to stump up, when working youngsters are moaning about the ticket prices!! Those numbers will reduce with time and the Grim Reaper.
I may well be considered to be a mug, but I will continue to support the VIQI replacement until it proves to be a failure. When you are stuck in a hole, as we are, you either fight to get out or you give in (but isn't that what we criticise the team for?)
Totally agree regarding the coach, another with Vinty's charisma is what we need to inject that authority into the team, the fans and the club generally. But he didn't have a contract iirc, declaring that a handshake was enough!!
On a more practical level our next coach needs to have the will to stay for the long haul. As with Sheffield etc, even Tony Smith at Hull KR. Looking at the long haul rather than an 'instant' wonder team. If we manage to attract such an individual he will need support rather than kicking!
Usually that means 1. a massive character like Vinty, or 2. someone who has been at the top coaching but looking at a retirement project, or 3. a coach that wants to make his name, likes the facilities, can work with meagre financial resources and backs his coaching skill to achieve his and our aims.
I would probably put Finnigan in the last group. He may still make it but he will make mistakes on the way, we may have been his first. He may well have tried to change things but was unsuccessful, it isn't that easy!
In all honesty we have been struggling for years we haven't got massive resources, our brilliant VIQI depends on not many more than a thousand pensioners who are prepared to stump up, when working youngsters are moaning about the ticket prices!! Those numbers will reduce with time and the Grim Reaper.
I may well be considered to be a mug, but I will continue to support the VIQI replacement until it proves to be a failure. When you are stuck in a hole, as we are, you either fight to get out or you give in (but isn't that what we criticise the team for?)
Well out of order are you a bigot ?
All different ages pay into VIQI what makes you so special, I guess you are retired with a pension and you belittle the youth who hardly have any money.
PS Tony Smith is leaving KR after only nearly 3 years.
Totally agree regarding the coach, another with Vinty's charisma is what we need to inject that authority into the team, the fans and the club generally. But he didn't have a contract iirc, declaring that a handshake was enough!!
On a more practical level our next coach needs to have the will to stay for the long haul. As with Sheffield etc, even Tony Smith at Hull KR. Looking at the long haul rather than an 'instant' wonder team. If we manage to attract such an individual he will need support rather than kicking!
Usually that means 1. a massive character like Vinty, or 2. someone who has been at the top coaching but looking at a retirement project, or 3. a coach that wants to make his name, likes the facilities, can work with meagre financial resources and backs his coaching skill to achieve his and our aims.
I would probably put Finnigan in the last group. He may still make it but he will make mistakes on the way, we may have been his first. He may well have tried to change things but was unsuccessful, it isn't that easy!
In all honesty we have been struggling for years we haven't got massive resources, our brilliant VIQI depends on not many more than a thousand pensioners who are prepared to stump up, when working youngsters are moaning about the ticket prices!! Those numbers will reduce with time and the Grim Reaper.
I may well be considered to be a mug, but I will continue to support the VIQI replacement until it proves to be a failure. When you are stuck in a hole, as we are, you either fight to get out or you give in (but isn't that what we criticise the team for?)
''depends on not many more than a thousand pensioners who are prepared to stump up when working youngsters are moaning about the ticket prices!!''
What absolute nonsense, pure comedy gold. Is this a belated April Fool's Joke?
Sorry about the way I expressed myself - my apologies.
But as I understand it VIQI subscribers number well under two thousand. Many are now pensioners and have been subscribing since its inception, before they were pensioners.
Perhaps you have better information? It would be good to have it up front!
If we are to grow and sign better players we are certainly going to need as many subscribers as we can muster. Even the price of a pint per week would help.
In the hard times that are hitting us inevitably some will not be able to afford anything and they have my genuine sympathy.
Sorry I thought you had said you wanted Finney to leave and someone else to take over.
Sorry about the way I expressed myself - my apologies.
But as I understand it VIQI subscribers number well under two thousand. Many are now pensioners and have been subscribing since its inception, before they were pensioners.
Perhaps you have better information? It would be good to have it up front!
If we are to grow and sign better players we are certainly going to need as many subscribers as we can muster. Even the price of a pint per week would help.
In the hard times that are hitting us inevitably some will not be able to afford anything and they have my genuine sympathy.
Np sorry if i caused offence just the way I see things
@farnworth-viking I do but I never said it here .I came up with an interesting poser on another thread as Betty was spotted at the ground. Do you think he would be a good CEO for us ?