Reserves vs Warring...
 
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Reserves vs Warrington

sunny
(@sunny)
Honorable Member

The match report indicates a thrashing of our reserves by Warrington.

A look at Wire's team though shows the depth of their club squad, their reserve side would give most championship teams a good game and beat several.

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Topic starter Posted : 07/03/2020 11:01 pm
carpet crawler
(@carpet-crawler)
Eminent Member

Thus emphasising the enormous gap between SL and the Championship. They should have strength in depth given that their wealth is in a different stratosphere to ours and most teams in this division.

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Posted : 08/03/2020 12:44 am
Viking25
(@viking25)
Honorable Member

In an ideal world reserves rugby is the correct pathway, in reality the current reserves system is a waste of resource.

There isn’t enough players out there currently for it to be competitive.

We had a player backing up from the academy game earlier in the day to make up the numbers.

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Posted : 08/03/2020 12:21 pm
Anotherposter
(@anotherposter)
Estimable Member

It's just symptomatic of the academy system that has allowed the top clubs to monopolise the best players

The reduction in age groups should help going forward but I'd rather see the academies scrapped and scholarship raised to 17 and under, effectively releasing players at 18 into the reserve structure

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Posted : 08/03/2020 1:01 pm
Viking Man
(@viking-man)
Reputable Member

In an ideal world reserves rugby is the correct pathway, in reality the current reserves system is a waste of resource. There isn’t enough players out there currently for it to be competitive. We had a player backing up from the academy game earlier in the day to make up the numbers.

But this is going to happen because we are in 'Year 1' of the structure.  You can only really give clubs 12 months notice on the new structure (which they had) in order to keep players on that they may have previously released.  The reserve structure needs 3-4 years to be judged and see whether players are being brought through.  Looking at the Warrington side, it's a useful exercise for them giving those players a game they wouldn't have had last year.  We don't have the players because of what happened last year and the fact we're in the Championship, it's amazing we can field a team.

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Posted : 10/03/2020 10:36 am
Viking Man
(@viking-man)
Reputable Member

It’s just symptomatic of the academy system that has allowed the top clubs to monopolise the best players

'The best players' choose where they're going to play at 16.  It's up to the clubs to sell themselves to the kids if they really want them.  Wigan, Saints & Leeds have an excellent record of giving young lads a chance in SL so naturally the better players want to go there.  Nothing to do with the structure as this would happen at any age you brought them in.

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Posted : 10/03/2020 10:38 am
RB
 RB
(@rb)
Trusted Member

The Operational Rules are different for us and Warrington them being in Super League and us not. They are allowed to field 1 trialist we are allowed to field 5. There are also unlimited Dual Registrations into the Reserves. Thus if we are struggling to field a side we can take available players from Warrington. Its difficult for us and especially last week 2 players who have been playing regularly for the Reserves turned out in our first Academy match of the season.

Its had a knock on effect throughput the game Thatto Heath haver lost at least 5 players to Championship / League 1. Too many young players weren't playing enough matches. We have to field a reserves as a condition of Academy Funding. Reserves is a no brainer for a Club like Warrington. Lets see how it goes.

Leeds are Dual Reg with Featherstone and Hunslet giving significant numbers of players to each and fielding Reserves and Academy. Presumably they can push Cap Salaries onto Fev and Hunslet. James Webster is working full time at Leeds as Assistant Coach plus coaching Fev. Hunslet are top of League 1 with a good chance of being promoted. Fev have a good chance of being promoted to Super League.

Nothing against Fev but it will be a joke if they are promoted to SL.

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Posted : 10/03/2020 11:23 am
Viking25
(@viking25)
Honorable Member

In an ideal world reserves rugby is the correct pathway, in reality the current reserves system is a waste of resource. There isn’t enough players out there currently for it to be competitive. We had a player backing up from the academy game earlier in the day to make up the numbers.

But this is going to happen because we are in ‘Year 1’ of the structure. You can only really give clubs 12 months notice on the new structure (which they had) in order to keep players on that they may have previously released. The reserve structure needs 3-4 years to be judged and see whether players are being brought through. Looking at the Warrington side, it’s a useful exercise for them giving those players a game they wouldn’t have had last year. We don’t have the players because of what happened last year and the fact we’re in the Championship, it’s amazing we can field a team.

Not sure anybody has enough players.

Think Warrington had players playing for them from Barrow on Saturday.

Saints have used players from Leigh.

Salford have dual registered with Swinton for the reserves.

Huddersfield have reserve team agreement with Halifax and Hunslet.

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Posted : 10/03/2020 2:30 pm
Anotherposter
(@anotherposter)
Estimable Member

It’s just symptomatic of the academy system that has allowed the top clubs to monopolise the best players

‘The best players’ choose where they’re going to play at 16. It’s up to the clubs to sell themselves to the kids if they really want them. Wigan, Saints & Leeds have an excellent record of giving young lads a chance in SL so naturally the better players want to go there. Nothing to do with the structure as this would happen at any age you brought them in.

 

I'm not talking about the quality I'm talking about numbers of players

Each of those clubs with two age group academies would have had around 40 players in those squads on academy contracts up to 19 years of age

Without the ability to do that then a lot of those older academy players would filter down to the lower clubs

As it stands the top clubs will be holding 50 plus players over 17, even conservatively that's at least 30 players between the top SL clubs that could be playing elsewhere

 

 

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Posted : 10/03/2020 2:52 pm
Viking Man
(@viking-man)
Reputable Member

I’m not talking about the quality I’m talking about numbers of players Each of those clubs with two age group academies would have had around 40 players in those squads on academy contracts up to 19 years of age Without the ability to do that then a lot of those older academy players would filter down to the lower clubs As it stands the top clubs will be holding 50 plus players over 17, even conservatively that’s at least 30 players between the top SL clubs that could be playing elsewhere

You said 'the best players' but fine.

No one pays u16s for starters.

U18's will have less than 30 in their squads many on peanuts and reserve players will count for about 5-10 at the most currently, with first team players and better 18s making up match day squads.  If your point is the reserve league will stop players playing Championship, I agree and I've brought this up before.  If you're an average player at 20, would you rather play for Oldham or play for Saints reserves and get the kit and everything that comes with it.

This is a challenge for the whole game but the challenge is a good one because it gets more players playing the game, with more opportunity.  This is why we're going to be in a stronger position with a youth set up and a reserve set up.

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Posted : 10/03/2020 4:51 pm
Anotherposter
(@anotherposter)
Estimable Member

I’m not talking about the quality I’m talking about numbers of players Each of those clubs with two age group academies would have had around 40 players in those squads on academy contracts up to 19 years of age Without the ability to do that then a lot of those older academy players would filter down to the lower clubs As it stands the top clubs will be holding 50 plus players over 17, even conservatively that’s at least 30 players between the top SL clubs that could be playing elsewhere

You said ‘the best players’ but fine. No one pays u16s for starters. U18’s will have less than 30 in their squads many on peanuts and reserve players will count for about 5-10 at the most currently, with first team players and better 18s making up match day squads. If your point is the reserve league will stop players playing Championship, I agree and I’ve brought this up before. If you’re an average player at 20, would you rather play for Oldham or play for Saints reserves and get the kit and everything that comes with it. This is a challenge for the whole game but the challenge is a good one because it gets more players playing the game, with more opportunity. This is why we’re going to be in a stronger position with a youth set up and a reserve set up.

I did say best players and you basically agreed with me, the best young prospects have and always will go to the clubs that offer them the best opportunities, we ourselves admitted that our academy was made up of players none of the "big clubs" wanted

As i mentioned the reduction from u19 to u18 will release a wave of players from clubs but they will be swallowed up by the same clubs reserves probably

The point i was trying to make was that prior to the academy system when pro forms were signed at 17 a club may pick up 8 or 10 young players each season who would slot into the reserves etc, when the academy system was introduced at u20 and u18 (i think) those clubs were picking up enough for the two full squads and players who may of otherwise gone to "lesser" clubs, where, as you pointed out they are more than happy to stay with a club who provide better facilities, training etc, instead of player being released at the end of a scholarship and filtering down to another club they just filtered into that clubs academy system and the next wave of players joined at scholarship level , it meant that the bigger clubs also had the majority of players

 

hopefully the age change will balance things out a bit but i think its going to be a good few years before we see any real changes

 

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Posted : 10/03/2020 11:43 pm
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