It's extremely concering that having questioned the effort of the players twice and received a response lasting for one game that he is now having to criticise commitment levels after the very next fixture.
You said Finnegan said he was happy with his squad at the start of the season Capey, but he’s not going to say, I think half of them are rubbish, but that’s what I’ve been given, is he?
Im not saying he’s a good coach, but he hasn’t been given a good squad, so I think we will have to wait a few games and see what, if anything, he can get out of them.
The players who are unfit need to take a good look at themselves, if you think about it the players who have been with us a while knew since Summer 19 that we would be PT so have had a lot of time to get their heads around it, even allowing for Covid. I said on another thread that we have had a losing culture at the club for a while, I mean in Regular League terms we have by my reckoning won 26 out of our last 83 matches since the start of 2017. (1/5 this year, 3/5 last, 14/27 in 2019, 3/23 in 2018, 5/23 in 2017). I do wonder if there is something in that, in terms of mentality?
I was thinking the same, there is definitely a losing culture that is deeply reminiscent of Sunderland in football, awful for years in the prem, finally relegated and they were immediate relegated again and they have been woeful ever since.
On the other hand, I am skeptical whether this can be applied to Widnes, since 2017 when our losing run started, there’s only 2 players currently still at the club who have featured in that season, Lyons and Craven.
majority of this squad has only been at the club since 2020.
You said Finnegan said he was happy with his squad at the start of the season Capey, but he’s not going to say, I think half of them are rubbish, but that’s what I’ve been given, is he? Im not saying he’s a good coach, but he hasn’t been given a good squad, so I think we will have to wait a few games and see what, if anything, he can get out of them.
Totally agree, he has inherited a squad that on paper, should 100% be pushing for promotion. As I have said many times, I think a few players thought Sheens would be in charge and also a few think they’re too good for this level. Either way, Finnegan isn’t getting a tune out of any of them. I’ve heard more excuses in 4 weeks off SF than I heard out of Betts and grinning Franny in 4 years! At least come out and say we are looking for re enforcements asap, remember, there is money to spend on the right player! I’m desperately trying to think when was the last time I’ve seen Widnes forwards being pummelled game in, game out.....
You could be right about players thinking they are too good for this league, but have had a shock at how tough the games have been. I can remember Owens or Craven saying last year that it was a tough league and players would have to adapt.
As James said, part-time players should look after their fitness level, but perhaps some have thought it would be easy at this level. Also, most if not all signings for this year said the attraction was Sheens and some may not be too happy with Finnegan.
Finnegan and his coaching team (if it can be described as such) must take responsibility for the fitness of players and their apparent lack of basic skills and seemingly going into games with no game plan. The problem he has is that we have a small squad and there is little or no flexibility to drop underperforming players, even more so when most of the team is underperforming.
In my view any player who has through words and actions, decided that he does not want to play for Finnegan should be shown the door and let it be known why they have been sacked. But can we afford to pay off player's contracts?
The same with Finnegan, could we afford to pay off his two year contract, even if we had someone suitable lined up to take over. That is why bringing someone in to work with Finnegan may be an option. He must be hurting more than anyone with the way this season has gone, both as as a Widnes fan and the impact it will have on his coaching credentials, if he can't turn this around at least to avoid relegation!!!
There may well be issues within the club that have yet to come out, but the very least we need if some comment from the Board and Finnegan as to how they plan to get out of the mess we are in. Bringing in a few more players who actually want to play for the club would be a start, assuming there are any available and we have the money.
Ultimately, the players were not ready for the start of the season. The coaching staff must take full responsibility for this.
Why ?
As has been said, the club is part time and there were restrictions about where people could go and how they could gather together. I’d say it is the individual’s responsibility to manage their fitness.
If the team’s tactics are poor it is down to the coaching.
If the tactic’s don’t work because the players aren’t fit then the buck stops with the players.
If it is a combination of poor tactics and lack of fitness (and motivation) then they are all to blame.
I’m ticking the option 3 box.
The only thing I can say in defence of the coach and players is that they can’t be judged by SL, allegedly professional, standards as they have day jobs which presumably pay more and which would be @ priority in paying the bills and putting food on the table.
The players who are unfit need to take a good look at themselves, if you think about it the players who have been with us a while knew since Summer 19 that we would be PT so have had a lot of time to get their heads around it, even allowing for Covid. I said on another thread that we have had a losing culture at the club for a while, I mean in Regular League terms we have by my reckoning won 26 out of our last 83 matches since the start of 2017. (1/5 this year, 3/5 last, 14/27 in 2019, 3/23 in 2018, 5/23 in 2017). I do wonder if there is something in that, in terms of mentality?
I was thinking the same, there is definitely a losing culture that is deeply reminiscent of Sunderland in football, awful for years in the prem, finally relegated and they were immediate relegated again and they have been woeful ever since. On the other hand, I am skeptical whether this can be applied to Widnes, since 2017 when our losing run started, there’s only 2 players currently still at the club who have featured in that season, Lyons and Craven. majority of this squad has only been at the club since 2020.
Without being picky - Owen Farnworth played in 2017.
However, I agree with your well made point. It was two years later that Owens featured, together with youngsters including Buckley, Edge, Else.
Okay, you can add 1 or 2 more players to my original statement but the point remains the same. It is hard to subscribe to the notion that there’s an innate losing culture at the club when this is practically a newish team (post 2019).
Ultimately, the players were not ready for the start of the season. The coaching staff must take full responsibility for this.
Why ? As has been said, the club is part time and there were restrictions about where people could go and how they could gather together. I’d say it is the individual’s responsibility to manage their fitness. If the team’s tactics are poor it is down to the coaching. If the tactic’s don’t work because the players aren’t fit then the buck stops with the players. If it is a combination of poor tactics and lack of fitness (and motivation) then they are all to blame. I’m ticking the option 3 box. The only thing I can say in defence of the coach and players is that they can’t be judged by SL, allegedly professional, standards as they have day jobs which presumably pay more and which would be @ priority in paying the bills and putting food on the table.
With ball in hand, yeah the tactics are non-existent but the issues are not tactics. You could create the best tactical masterpiece in the world but if players constantly miss tackles, get banged from tackles or fail to put their bodies into defence then you’re going to be a losing team.
Right now we need a motivator not a tactician.
I think we need a priest!
We can debate all year about are the players fit enough , whose responsibility it is to get them fit , their own the coach etc. Same can be said about tactics , are they right , do we have any .
For me it's simple , the players we have are not good enough as a group to be in the top 5 in this league . Certain individuals may be , not many , but as a whole we are very weak . You can say the same about our coach . He may develop into a great coach in years to come but we don't need a project in charge we need a proven man at the helm.
The board of directors appoint someone to run the off field Rugby related stuff , recruitment , player retention , squad build etc , coaching appointments and that is our CEO . He should be held responsible for the position we are in , because so far he hasn't got very much right.
The Vicar
last night was at the stadium and could see from pitch side the board were meeting
you would hope our concerns re team effort, performance and attitude have been discussed at this event
Perhaps now is a good time for you Flash to try and speak with our CEO and ask the questions this forum have been debating for weeks
We can debate all year about are the players fit enough , whose responsibility it is to get them fit , their own the coach etc. Same can be said about tactics , are they right , do we have any . For me it’s simple , the players we have are not good enough as a group to be in the top 5 in this league . Certain individuals may be , not many , but as a whole we are very weak . You can say the same about our coach . He may develop into a great coach in years to come but we don’t need a project in charge we need a proven man at the helm. The board of directors appoint someone to run the off field Rugby related stuff , recruitment , player retention , squad build etc , coaching appointments and that is our CEO . He should be held responsible for the position we are in , because so far he hasn’t got very much right. The Vicar
Vic, there’s a distinction that has to be made. Not been good enough for the top 5, is utterly disappointing but every single performance this year has nothing to do with whether they are good enough for top 5, the performances have epitomised a team that simply does not give a f***, there’s clearly talent in the team.
I couldn’t care if these players are not good enough for top 5, it’s the fact that their effort they are currently putting in is equivalent of a team playing in a testimonial, ability or talent has nothing to do with it!
I agree with a lot that’s been said
The fitness is way off, the coach should of had them in doing the bleep test and from the results given each player a target. Ball skills and alike and then the runs and drills/sets is as basic as it gets then maybe smith/craven/Tomkins/Owens additional input
It looks like we need a coach who can bring some unity which isn’t happening under SF
No the club is letting the players off the hook .
The players are employees of the club and therefore should be in the necessary condition to carry out their job and the employer ( the club ) should be making sure that this happens , which quite clearly they are not . Anyway this should have been written into their contract .Was it !
I do not know whether SF gave them a pre season training programme to enable them to come back to club training in the correct condition ?
Presumably they were tested when they came back to club training to establish their
fitness.
The refusal to have friendlies was ill conceived and utter complacency giving the incorrect vibes to the players , for as someone mentioned previously you only get match fitness by playing matches .
Unfortunately the powers that be have been totally naive and negligent and the sooner they put the club in order the better .
Unless the club as a total re-set forthwith by employing an experienced coach , task master and an accountant to oversee spending and get value for money from the playing side we may after a glimmer of hope have a further sad time .
Please Board take some action !