Super league application

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  • #5401
    Mckeeverviking
    • Posts: 55
    • Time to get a VIQI
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    why would we not put our name in the hat for the 12th super league team. I am sure the 1.7 million would come in handy 

    #5402
    CJ91
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    Can’t see it sadly.

    Wish we were in a position to strongly contend for it, but realistically we would be a bit down the list.

    Although Halifax are applying who would seem to be lower down the pecking order than us IMO.

    #5403
    Cumbria viking
    • Posts: 6
    • New signing

    If rumours are true it’s just the 1 mil for the 12th team so not even a level playing field from the start …personally wouldn’t go anywhere near applying…think the place is going only one place n that’s Toulouse

    #5404
    Sinbad
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    Waste of time, it will be awarded to London or Toulouse.Widnes are nowhere near ready.

    Besides, you would have to rush to assemble a squad in time for February and get by on 700K less than the others.That means likely hammerings every week,bottom of the league without a win,disheartened fans,low crowds and immediate relegation back.Leave it to some other mugs to chase the fools gold.

    #5405
    Spelly
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    In my opinion, you’d be unwise to bid to be “Team 12” coz with less funding, it’ll difficult from (before) day one. Also, the only players available to strengthen the squad would be those on the “Who’s left?” list. I agree that would be the same for all clubs, so, who’s gonna get the nod?

    Fev? They’ve been making a lot of the right noises of late, and came close to pipping Toronto for the big prize last year. But of course They’ve (heavily) relied on their DR with the Rhinos, and that would come to an abrupt end, should they be chosen.

    Leythers? Had two goes recently, and failed both times. Would they do better this time? Possibly.

    The Broncos? I think most people would agree they were unfortunate to be relegated, but sentiment counts for nowt. However, might one or two players be tempted by the bright lights of the Smoke?

    Bradford? Noooooooooooooooo way for me! Bang average Championship outfit, who (like us) are “homed” out of town. Their glory days in SL are lonnnnnnnng gone, and as the old song goes. “You’re not famous any more!”

    I reckon (full time) Toulouse are the faves, and they’d be my choice. It would (hopefully) help to better the game over there, and they already seem to have a decent-ish squad.

    But, whoever gets the nod, it’ll be hugely difficult to survive, and to be honest, I don’t envy ’em one bit!

    Spelly.

    " ---- and then on the eighth day, God created Rugby League."

    #5407
    Mick George
    • Posts: 182
    • North Stander
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    We have to apply if only to show ambition just like our new coach.

    #5408
    ma
    • Posts: 65
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    I really don’t see the point in wasting time and money applying.

    All of our resources should be ploughed into building a sustainable club on solid foundations. When we get promoted again (we will but not sure when), we will be ready on all fronts and not reliant on something that may disappear. S OConnor wanted us as a part of some ego trip but always said he would leave us one day – I’m not sure many believed he would. When he did, it was the beginning of the end. I don’t want us to go through that again.

    Only one club can get the nod with 7 clubs already throwing their hat in the ring. Let them fight it out and then let 6 other sets of supporters deal with the heartache of rejection, alleged injustice, conspiracy theories, bias and appeals. Then let the promoted club deal with relegation the year after, causing them to make redundancies and rebuild their squad.

    I just don’t think we are ready for any of that yet after what our club and supporters have been through over the last 3 or 4 years.

    Bradford??? They don’t even play in Bradford and even if they wanted too, they would probably have to spend a couple of million making Odsal safe for spectators again.

    #5409
    sandgroper
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    Dont disagree with you ma but we should inform them that it is our intention to press for promotion in tbe future and are working hard to that end.

    They should be well aware of our recent financial problems, and should not be unaware of the magnificent effort by the club’s new Board, the supporters and the Borough in general to recover from the results of a failed mangement.

    That would not take long to write and should make our future intentions clear.

    #5411
    Sinbad
    • Posts: 462
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    There’s ambition and then there’s being realistic.Just because we don’t apply does’nt mean we don’t want Super League one day, just not yet.Can anyone seriously see a club based in the north getting the nod to replace an ‘expansion’ club ? It’s a two horse race between Toulouse and London.

    #5412
    Frankg
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    There are a couple of conflicting threads on here. One is about losing players to whichever team gets the 12th spot in SL – maybe talking about Owens, Craven, Smith, Tomkins, Baker and possibly the props we have recently signed. The other is saying that we should not apply for the 12th spot because we won’t be ready for a couple of years, or that we have no chance as it will be Toulouse or London; and that whoever gets the 12th spot will face automatic relegation, as they will only get £1m in 2021 compared with the £1.7m to be paid to other clubs.

    • I agree that in all likelihood, the 12th spot will go to Toulouse or London, but what do we lose if we apply? It also emphasises that the club has ambition to get back into SL – a well run club; having been through the trauma of Administration caused by financial mismanagement, we have emerged with a better or at least as good a financial footing as several other clubs who are proposing to apply; and we have a good fan base, which with promotion you would expect to increase. This would not only increase match day revenues, but also possibly bring an increase in Viqi contributions and local sponsorship;
    • Surely, the aim in 2020 was and in 2021 is to reach a play-off position and hopefully promotion.  Would we turn down promotion to SL because we don’t think we are ready, if we happened to win the play-offs?
    • I really have no idea as to what the SL salaries are these days, but clearly we would not be in the spending league of the big clubs, signing marquee players from the NRL. We would get £1m if promoted and presumably would look to increase ST sales and local sponsorship. Say we offered full-time contracts to the current squad – some may well not want a full-time contract and prefer to be part-time – at an additional cost of say £500,000. That would leave £500,000 to spend on players (ignoring any increased income) – perhaps enough to bring in 4 players on £70/£80,000 with SL experience and say 2 on £100,000 perhaps with NRL experience. Would that not give us a squad perhaps not capable of getting in the top 4 of SL, but capable of competing with the likes of Salford, Wakefield, HKR, Huddersfield, Hull and Castleford.

    Just a thought and presuming we meet the criteria set by RFL/SL. When is the chance likely to come again there is no promotion or relegation in 2021 and a licensing system is re-introduced in the future?

    #5414
    Sinbad
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    The best thing for the ‘promoted’ club would be to bank the £1m and just get by within their own means and income,fielding a team just to fulfill the fixtures.They will finish bottom anyway.

    #5415
    Royston Vasey
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    There are a couple of conflicting threads on here. One is about losing players to whichever team gets the 12th spot in SL – maybe talking about Owens, Craven, Smith, Tomkins, Baker and possibly the props we have recently signed. The other is saying that we should not apply for the 12th spot because we won’t be ready for a couple of years, or that we have no chance as it will be Toulouse or London; and that whoever gets the 12th spot will face automatic relegation, as they will only get £1m in 2021 compared with the £1.7m to be paid to other clubs.

    • I agree that in all likelihood, the 12th spot will go to Toulouse or London, but what do we lose if we apply? It also emphasises that the club has ambition to get back into SL – a well run club; having been through the trauma of Administration caused by financial mismanagement, we have emerged with a better or at least as good a financial footing as several other clubs who are proposing to apply; and we have a good fan base, which with promotion you would expect to increase. This would not only increase match day revenues, but also possibly bring an increase in Viqi contributions and local sponsorship;
    • Surely, the aim in 2020 was and in 2021 is to reach a play-off position and hopefully promotion. Would we turn down promotion to SL because we don’t think we are ready, if we happened to win the play-offs?
    • I really have no idea as to what the SL salaries are these days, but clearly we would not be in the spending league of the big clubs, signing marquee players from the NRL. We would get £1m if promoted and presumably would look to increase ST sales and local sponsorship. Say we offered full-time contracts to the current squad – some may well not want a full-time contract and prefer to be part-time – at an additional cost of say £500,000. That would leave £500,000 to spend on players (ignoring any increased income) – perhaps enough to bring in 4 players on £70/£80,000 with SL experience and say 2 on £100,000 perhaps with NRL experience. Would that not give us a squad perhaps not capable of getting in the top 4 of SL, but capable of competing with the likes of Salford, Wakefield, HKR, Huddersfield, Hull and Castleford.

    Just a thought and presuming we meet the criteria set by RFL/SL. When is the chance likely to come again there is no promotion or relegation in 2021 and a licensing system is re-introduced in the future?

     

    I’d say one of the aims Was to place as high as we could but it would be secondary to building on the newLy established framework for a part time club and to ensure that we would actually be here for the 2921 season. If we had qualified for promotion in a full 2020:season then we would have taken it even though we probably wouldn’t have been able to make it work as a viable concern on SL.

    We are nowhere near ready for SL and from my perspective I’m not keen on us being in it anyway, as it is not run professionally. I think we should just enjoy the game for what it is and forget about trying to emulate past glories for a while.

    #5416
    Sinbad
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    People must have short memories. The disaster of the 2018 season was’nt that long ago.If you think that was bad then Widnes in SL next year would be even worse.Two months prep, less money than the others and a majority of Championship standard players puts us in an impossible position.Does anyone really want the suffering and misery of 50 point floggings every week whilst home crowds plummet to 2000 ? Not gonna happen anyway.We won’t get in even if we apply and rightly so.

    #5417
    Former Chemic
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    Although in my opinion it’s already in the bag for Toulouse, we should make an application to join SL.

    In the dim and distant past when I was working, I sometimes applied for promotion knowing the job was a step too far. The reason I did apply was to demonstrate my desire and enthusiasm “to get on”.

    Widnes have the opportunity to remind “the powers that be” that we are an ambitious club with a great fanbase, a board that’s learned from our previous financial disasters, a splendid stadium and most importantly  a long established player development system.

    #5418
    Frankg
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    I agree that SL is run for the benefit of a few clubs – Wigan, St Helens, Leeds and Warrington –  and those outside that group are generally just making up the numbers at the moment. I wonder what would happen if (and possibly when) the likes of Moran, McManus and Lenegan pull the plug on the funding?

    I also agree that the European expansion is likely to see Toulouse given the 12th spot.  You never know the SL/RFL may actually spell out their future strategy for RL based on a UK/European expansion and what their plans are for the game outside the SL. At the very least, they should set up an independent body to review the current structure and propose future changes to promote and expand the game, with proposals to be submitted within six months. Hopefully, this will include having a strong competitive and properly funded Championship/League 1 (one league?)

    I believe that the SL will become a closed shop sooner rather than later, based on a licensing system, with no promotion or relegation.  Will this then leave it open for the likes of Perez and other multi millionaires to buy their way back into the league. Hopefully, the criteria will include a requirement for clubs to be based in Europe.

    Typical RFL/SL, they have probably already decided to admit Toulouse, but will raise the hopes of other clubs and fans. If they want to increase the number of “European” clubs, perhaps they should say so and just promote Toulouse.

    I also agree that I would much prefer a Widnes team competing at the top end of the Championship, rather than a team being beaten week in week out and permanently struggling in the SL. If RFL see a future for the game outside the SL, they have to ensure that it is properly funded and promoted. Perhaps this will also mean clubs having to meet a minimum criteria on their financial viability and management structure.

    We should not forget that the disaster of 2018 was directly as a result of the financial mismanagement by the then Directors – taking out huge and unwarranted salaries and failing to invest in the playing squad. I believe that the present Board has the best interests of the club at heart and has been doing a good job – making the difficult decision to go part-time and cutting costs. Can they take us into SL if the opportunity arises? Why not? Will we or any other club be placed at a financial disadvantage? Possibly yes, but remember the current SL clubs are stuck with SL contracts that they may struggle to afford with the reduction in Sky funding in 2021. Will they face automatic relegation? Not necessarily. There is not a great difference in standard between the bottom six of SL and the top six of the Championship. It will be tough to avoid relegation, but not inevitable.

    If Widnes meets the criteria for applying for the 12th spot in SL, should we apply? Why not? It would give the club the opportunity to highlight their plans and optimism for the future of Widnes Vikings, which hopefully we all share. It could also be used to promote the club within the town and to promote the sale of season tickets. It could also generate interest from and involve fans in some way – covid restrictions permitting – to get them behind any bid. I would rather we had an optimistic outlook for rugby league in Widnes, rather than a pessimistic (or realistic?) outlook that sees us at least a couple of seasons away from being capable of winning the Championship.

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