------------- are "ready to defect to the Tories." According to a report I've just read, but,,,,
Will they have the balls to resign their seats?
I won't hold my breath!
Spelly.
I’ve not come top in BOB’s prediction table for a reason, but I predict that NO Labour MP will cross the floor to join Boris.
I’ve not come top in BOB’s prediction table for a reason, but I predict that NO Labour MP will cross the floor to join Boris.
Just a couple of reports I read online, and they're not named, but........
As I've said many times, there's summat wrong in a constitution that allows an MP to defect to another party and retain their seat, without resigning it, and standing at a subsequent by-election.
I would say exactly the same, if one (or more) of Boris' Brigade crossed the floor of the House in the opposite direction.
It reneges on what they were elected for, and I consider it nothing less than gutless, that the constituents are not given the option to vote on the action / decision / journey that their MP has made!
We are supposed to live in a democracy, and this is not democratic!
Spelly.
I'll bet the report was in the Express or the Mail and will have no truth in it whatsoever. although I guess there are MPs on all sides of the Labour Party are unhappy with the direction of the Party for entirely opposite reasons!!
The counter argument is that we have a representative democracy and individual MPs are elected to represent their constituency. I am sure that any defecting MP will argue that it is the Party that has changed and not them. Perhaps there is a need to give power to constituents to recall an MP and force a by-election by way of a Petition, when an MP changes Party, as currently in place for serious wrong-doing by an MP.
I’ve not come top in BOB’s prediction table for a reason, but I predict that NO Labour MP will cross the floor to join Boris.
Just a couple of reports I read online, and they’re not named, but…….. As I’ve said many times, there’s summat wrong in a constitution that allows an MP to defect to another party and retain their seat, without resigning it, and standing at a subsequent by-election. I would say exactly the same, if one (or more) of Boris’ Brigade crossed the floor of the House in the opposite direction. It reneges on what they were elected for, and I consider it nothing less than gutless, that the constituents are not given the option to vote on the action / decision / journey that their MP has made! We are supposed to live in a democracy, and this is not democratic! Spelly.
Looking at the stats from years gone by, it appears defecting from party to party is a very common thing.
It got quite silly in the run up to the 2019 Election, as the Pro EU snakes slithered away to a political abyss.
One of those slithering snakes was Sir Oliver Letwin - The man responsible for the creation of the Poll Tax.
Yet, most left wing loons felt huge sympathy for him... 🤦
Liverpudlians going ape-crunchie over Keir Starmer writing in The Sun. And rightly so. BUT.....
...how did they know, if they don't read The Sun, and are they now going to ditch the Party and vote Conservative?
Paulie xx
I’ve not come top in BOB’s prediction table for a reason, but I predict that NO Labour MP will cross the floor to join Boris.
Just a couple of reports I read online, and they’re not named, but…….. As I’ve said many times, there’s summat wrong in a constitution that allows an MP to defect to another party and retain their seat, without resigning it, and standing at a subsequent by-election. I would say exactly the same, if one (or more) of Boris’ Brigade crossed the floor of the House in the opposite direction. It reneges on what they were elected for, and I consider it nothing less than gutless, that the constituents are not given the option to vote on the action / decision / journey that their MP has made! We are supposed to live in a democracy, and this is not democratic! Spelly.
Looking at the stats from years gone by, it appears defecting from party to party is a very common thing. It got quite silly in the run up to the 2019 Election, as the Pro EU snakes slithered away to a political abyss. One of those slithering snakes was Sir Oliver Letwin – The man responsible for the creation of the Poll Tax. Yet, most left wing loons felt huge sympathy for him…
A bit strong as there were - and still are - strong views on both sides of the brexit argument. To put the record straight, it was Margaret Thatcher who introduced the "poll tax" following a Green Paper on Paying for Local Government, which was produced following consultation with Lord Rothschild, William Waldergrave and Kenneth Baker, although William Waldergrave carried the can as local government minister under Thatcher. He subsequently admitted that it was a serious error (a bit of an understatemment!) and introduced too quickly. I think Oliver Letwin was a young adviser to Margaret Thatcher at the time. I think that you will find that Oliver Letwin fought brexit from inside the Conservative Party until he had the whip withdrawn and he stood down at the 2019 election, rather than "slither away" as you suggest.
I’ve not come top in BOB’s prediction table for a reason, but I predict that NO Labour MP will cross the floor to join Boris.
Just a couple of reports I read online, and they’re not named, but…….. As I’ve said many times, there’s summat wrong in a constitution that allows an MP to defect to another party and retain their seat, without resigning it, and standing at a subsequent by-election. I would say exactly the same, if one (or more) of Boris’ Brigade crossed the floor of the House in the opposite direction. It reneges on what they were elected for, and I consider it nothing less than gutless, that the constituents are not given the option to vote on the action / decision / journey that their MP has made! We are supposed to live in a democracy, and this is not democratic! Spelly.
Looking at the stats from years gone by, it appears defecting from party to party is a very common thing. It got quite silly in the run up to the 2019 Election, as the Pro EU snakes slithered away to a political abyss. One of those slithering snakes was Sir Oliver Letwin – The man responsible for the creation of the Poll Tax. Yet, most left wing loons felt huge sympathy for him…
A bit strong as there were – and still are – strong views on both sides of the brexit argument (1.) To put the record straight, it was Margaret Thatcher who introduced the “poll tax” following a Green Paper on Paying for Local Government, which was produced following consultation with Lord Rothschild, William Waldergrave and Kenneth Baker, although William Waldergrave carried the can as local government minister under Thatcher. (2). He subsequently admitted that it was a serious error (a bit of an understatemment!) and introduced too quickly. I think Oliver Letwin was a young adviser to Margaret Thatcher at the time. I think that you will find that Oliver Letwin fought brexit from inside the Conservative Party until he had the whip withdrawn and he stood down at the 2019 election, rather than “slither away” as you suggest. (3).
1). And 3). Not strong at all. He, along with other Pro EU politicians, openly tried to subvert democracy, and got what they deserved.
2). https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/30/downing-street-files-oliver-letwin-poll-tax
Liverpudlians going ape-crunchie over Keir Starmer writing in The Sun. And rightly so. BUT….. …how did they know, if they don’t read The Sun, and are they now going to ditch the Party and vote Conservative? Paulie xx
Let's be honest, Scousers are walking contradictions.
Like you say, they go ape whenever anyone says they read the Sun, yet they can't get enough of it when it comes to 99p Holidays time 🤦🤦🤦
They're exactly the same when it comes to politics too, they'll call the Tories not fit to burn, but Labour council leaders (Degsy Hatton and Joe Anderson to name but 2) have been robbing them blind for donkey's years...
Moving it on (or back?) a bit...................
I've just finished watching the Blair and Brown Years on the Beeb's iPlayer, and.............
Am now even more convinced that it was wrong to invade Iraq.
A Labour PM with blood on his hands, acting as Bush's puppet.
I've mentioned it before, but that one action took me soooooooooooooooo near to resigning from the party.
Spelly.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It is now clear that President Bush built the case for this war on a lie and Tony Blair - possibly looking to his "legacy" - jumped in with both feet and convinced Parliament and the majority of the British public that it was a just cause. He was misled by the Bush administration, who were probably more interested in getting their hands on the Iraqi oil fields, than removing Saddam Hussein. The vast majority of those opposing it at the time were anti-war and would have opposed it on those grounds alone.
If - and that is a big word in history - the aftermath of the short war had gone to plan (if indeed there was a plan!) and a puppet pro-Western government successfully established, Blair would have gone down in history as a successful war leader and matched Thatcher, who gloried in the success (by the skin of her teeth and the professionalism of our armed forces) in the Falklands war.
The unfortunate thing is that Tony Blair Government will forever be remember for the disaster of Iraq and not the three election victories for the Labour Party and its achievements in education, the NHS, NI and more. The other sad thing is that the far left of the Party - the Corbynites - are the most vitriolic in attacking the Blair years, because he (quite rightly) moved the Party to the centre ground and crushed the far left, who were and still are unelectable.
I think Gordon Brown will fare better in history for his positive role and leadership in the recovery from the world banking crash of 2007-2008.
1) Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It is now clear that President Bush built the case for this war on a lie and Tony Blair – possibly looking to his “legacy” – jumped in with both feet and convinced Parliament and the majority of the British public that it was a just cause. He was misled by the Bush administration, who were probably more interested in getting their hands on the Iraqi oil fields, than removing Saddam Hussein. The vast majority of those opposing it at the time were anti-war and would have opposed it on those grounds alone. If – and that is a big word in history – the aftermath of the short war had gone to plan (if indeed there was a plan!) and a puppet pro-Western government successfully established, Blair would have gone down in history as a successful war leader and matched 2) Thatcher, who gloried in the success (by the skin of her teeth and the professionalism of our armed forces) in the Falklands war. The unfortunate thing is that 3) Tony Blair Government will forever be remember for the disaster of Iraq and not the three election victories for the Labour Party and its achievements in education, the NHS, NI and more. The other sad thing is that the far left of the Party – the Corbynites – are the most vitriolic in attacking the Blair years, because he (quite rightly) moved the Party to the centre ground and crushed the far left, who were and still are unelectable. I think Gordon Brown will fare better in history for his positive role and leadership in the recovery from the world banking crash of 2007-2008.
1) Soooooooooo true!
The party needed to re-align / change / move away from, Militant Tendency, to make it electable, and did so.
Blair got a lot right, I totally agree, but the invasion (in my opinion) was wrong. I opposed it at the time, because of Bush saying "jump!" and all we asked was "How high?"
Even with hindsight, I still feel vindicated, in strongly voicing my disagreement to it.
2) The Grantham Witch won an election against summat that happened in the South Atlantic.
3) That decision Blair made, as you suggest, is his legacy, but the fact remains, that a Labour PM, who I helped to elect, had / has / always will have, blood on his hands.
Spelly.
I actually believe that Blair was duped by Bush, in the same way as Bush misled the American public at the time. Perhaps Blair was blinded by his vision of his future legacy as a victorious leader of the "free world".
I would bet that Blair now bitterly regrets his decision to follow Bush and has nightmares about the wasted lives as a direct result of his actions. Of course, he would never admit that. You can say that every leader who takes their country into war has blood on their hands.
I would also guess that his motives were not all selfish, but also felt he was doing the right thing for the oppressed people of Iraq. I don't think many have actually mourned for the loss of Saddam Hussein and his murderous regime. It is mainly about the lack of any planning to put something in its place.
Politics and Rugby League, both generate passionate and widely different opinions!
So far as Tony Blair is concerned, despite some undoubted positive achievements, I detest him for other (political) reasons apart from Iraq . Eg … starting to privatise parts of the NHS, student fees, PFI contracts and the disastrous relaxation of financial controls.
I don't think Blair was duped by Bush. They all had access to the same intelligence. He made a political decision to support the Americans in the invasion of Iraq. He then sought to find evidence to justify that decision. The dodgy dossier was all Alistair Campbells and Tony Blairs own work. I have no idea whether he bitterly regrets his actions and neither do you. He is responsible for his own decisions and his place in history will rest on those decisions and his record. Stop making excuses for him just because you feel politically aligned with him.