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To play or not to play?

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(@viking25)
Prominent Member

I don't think we will play this year, and will probably be the right thing, but in doing that I think there are two main problems.

For clubs it's currently been 3 months since we last played, that feels like an absolute age. Imagine how long it will feel in another 7 months when the 2021 season starts. Many people, I suspect, like me, will fall out of love with it all. I have in these last 3 months. People will get used to life not watching Widnes and the habit of going the game will fall away.

Secondly, it'll be incredibly amateur on the sports behalf that they're just writing a season off completely. Not sure it would do the image of the sport and good.

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Posted : 27/06/2020 4:47 pm
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

Whatever the perils of people forgetting the game or looking amateur would it be better to see clubs go bankrupt? Most of the Championship is amateur, including us atm. Even established soccer clubs that are much better of financially are in danger of going bust.

Our particular problem is the timing of the CC game. If we have to surrender our furloughed status to play it would cost us to have players then just waiting for the Championship to start up again. I can't see Rimmer footing that bill for us tbh.

It goes against the grain to opt out of a cup competition and if the CC game is delayed until the Champs are back that would resolve the problem.

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Posted : 28/06/2020 10:02 am
 CJ91
(@cj91)
Noble Member

May be a sore point with some, but how much are we actually bothered by the Challenge Cup?

Even if we beat Catalans, and that's a huge IF, is it worth getting beat in a semi-final none of us could go to in all probability, especially without a share of gate money? If we have to drop out of the cup to stay financially sound on furlough, so be it.

Good point about people getting out of the habit, I have missed it a little bit but not as much as I thought, probably because the season was so short I wasn't really invested in it. When there is a restart with fans, clubs need to do everything they can to create a buzz.

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Posted : 28/06/2020 12:01 pm
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

Don't know how the RFL would view a club dropping out of the cup comp, but we are in extenuating circumstances atm.

Returning fans might have more to do with the public's confidence that the epidemic is over rather than forgetting the habit. As has been said many times the RFL and clubs will really have to re-launch the game anew. We don't yet know how SL clubs will come out of the troubles, reserve sides etc. Could be a whole new picture.

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Posted : 28/06/2020 12:40 pm
 CJ91
(@cj91)
Noble Member

Phil Finney quite cautious in the League Express, I suspect we aren't pushing for a restart. Fair enough like.

The York chairman also saying a restart would be nice but 2021 season being a good one more important.

With SL clubs pushing for no relegation, what would be the point really?

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Posted : 28/06/2020 10:06 pm
 ma
(@ma)
Trusted Member

When I started this topic, I hoped that somebody with inside knowledge would be able to say what we were bargaining for - we know that on the previous round of talks that Toulouse, Leigh and Featherstone seemed quite vocal on getting a decision made ASAP, leaning towards getting the league started so that they could get on with achieving promotion (even though only one could achieve it) - eggs in one basket?

I've noticed that on the Fev website, their CEO is now remaining quite cautious about a return.

All the points raised so far are very valid and operate on both sides of the fence. It really is a case of being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Season tickets - I would love to say, call a halt to the season and have my season ticket money. However, I've forked out £350 for an adult and 2 kids to watch 3 games (we only managed to get to 2 of them) plus an 80 mile round journey plus a VIQI subscription. That's quite a lot of money for any family to forego. However, if they said I wont get my money back but there will be a heavy discount on next season then I'd go for that. On the other hand, I understand money is tight and they might not be able to do that - I'd love to donate my money to keep the Vikings alive. But then how can my family or other families justify forking this money out again to support the club I love? Whatever the decision, I understand it is with the best interests of Widnes future in mind and I won't grumble as I don't want a repeat of 2019. Just things for the club to consider.

Null and void - If we call a halt to the season, and deem it null and void then I suppose that alleviates many financial and health concerns. However, in the time between our last game and a regular starting date in 2021, how many Widnes fans will have switched off from wanting to go and watch the club. 10 and a half months is a loooong time and plenty of time to develop other interests. Maybe a long time off might make people appreciate being a spectator more and the return will make people keener.

Sponsors and other income - If we decide to mothball the season, have sponsors got their money's worth? Will they want to reinvest knowing there is a possibility this could all happen again and they won't get VFM again? Will the investment in the packages roll over to next year - can clubs afford for this to happen? Will supporters need to invest in replicas again?

As well as feeling for our club, I also fear for RL at this level. We get next to nothing from the TV deal so we do need bums on seats before we play. I'm interested in how Barrow fare in all of this. I'm sure their chairman announced before the season that all kids in south Cumbria got in free and if adults got in the ground by a certain point they could get in free (could be a bit wide of the mark). It's almost like they have budgeted for a pandemic.

Imagine if Covid hit the sport in 2019 - not sure how we could survive, a month after coming out of administration.

If it hit the sport in 2018 - with what our debts were - I reckon we wouldn't have survived that season.

If our club can survive this now, I reckon we can face anything. I want us to get back into SL as soon as, but I'm quite happy with a realistic, sustained rebuilding period in the Championship for a good few years.

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Topic starter Posted : 29/06/2020 12:58 pm
(@ceejay1)
Reputable Member

Apart from the Supporters, Sponsors, , Our Board and Club Staff, what do  the Players want to do?   If I remember correctly, didn't the Club only give 1 year contracts out for 2020.   If they did, they will have expired by October but I am sure that most of the Supporters will want them to re-sign for 2021 .

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Posted : 29/06/2020 5:41 pm
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

Could well depend on what clubs generally can afford to offer for next year, also if SL players are allowed to go due to financial stress at clubs.

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Posted : 29/06/2020 9:32 pm
(@frankg)
Noble Member

SL likely to have no promotion or relegation. Neil Hudgell, talking of HKR's precarious financial position,  mentioned that corona virus testing will cost the club £100,000 and the club having a £2m shortfall this season. The likes of Moran, McManus and Lenegan must be putting in a fortune to keep their respective clubs afloat.

On this basis, there seems little or no chance of a return of the Championship/League 1 this season. Would there be any point in playing the CC game against Catalan? Probably not.

We must therefore hope that the 2021 season can return with some normality. Even that is in doubt.

I hope we can retain the players we have and bring in the additional forwards that we need too.

 

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Posted : 01/07/2020 4:02 pm
 CJ91
(@cj91)
Noble Member

Our Wire friends have reported a significant shortfall, up to £1.4m I have read.

I wonder whether owning your own stadium is more of a hindrance in these circumstances?

RL is going to have to be far more realistic in spending for a number of the forthcoming years. Saw a Wakefield player (Kershaw?) in the paper taking a second job to make ends meet: is fully pro RL in this country properly sustainable?

If paying for the testing is prohibitive then that should be the end of the story as far as the lower leagues are concerned. Let alone the cost without fans.

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Posted : 01/07/2020 5:36 pm
(@frankg)
Noble Member

Also reading Gareth Carvell questioning SL clubs making high profile signings, whilst at the same time asking current players to take pay cuts of up to 50%. It does seem like financial madness and a recipe for turmoil within a club.

The Warrington Chairman also saying that it is "going to be a two to three-year recovery for our sport and their will be a lot of casualties along the way". If this situation had arisen when Rule and Co were in charge, I have no doubt that Widnes would definitely have been one of these casualties.

At least in our current position, we must have a better chance than most other Championship and a few SL clubs of surviving this crisis. Fingers crossed.

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Posted : 01/07/2020 7:49 pm
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

And Ottawa have signed a coach!

Apparently SL clubs are happy that Cats and TWP are not going out as it gives more cash for SL clubs to share. Surelt the saved cash should be retained for the SL funds rather than pocketed by the clubs. As it is there is a definite bias to retiaain foreigners!

The RFL must use the time up to 2021 to reorganise the Championship at least. The whole shooting match should be revamped really but that is beyond them.

It certainly sounds as if SL players might drop out into Championship simply to save money.

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Posted : 01/07/2020 8:30 pm
(@spike-island-90)
Honorable Member

Also reading Gareth Carvell questioning SL clubs making high profile signings, whilst at the same time asking current players to take pay cuts of up to 50%. It does seem like financial madness and a recipe for turmoil within a club. The Warrington Chairman also saying that it is “going to be a two to three-year recovery for our sport and their will be a lot of casualties along the way”. If this situation had arisen when Rule and Co were in charge, I have no doubt that Widnes would definitely have been one of these casualties. At least in our current position, we must have a better chance than most other Championship and a few SL clubs of surviving this crisis. Fingers crossed.

 

 

This may seem controversial but I don’t how it is explicable that Rugby League players playing a game watched by small audiences can command salary’s of over £150,000 annually.

In my opinion, Rugby players should be content with a maximum of £60,000 a year. Some of our greatest players in RL, were part-time players. It is time for RL in this country to stop trying to compete with Union and can start taking this game back to its roots, a working class sport played for local pride not for huge contracts that the game cannot afford.

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Posted : 03/07/2020 6:35 pm
(@sandgroper)
Noble Member

Fair comment Spike Island. Looking at our part time exploits the rugby was still good to watch, if you were a fan. The only thing that changed was Sky SL.

Sadly once you've had your nose in the trough its hard to walk away. Sky have SL clubs over a barrel and they know it. Can't see us going back atm. Those at the top, Elstone and Rimmer, are well trough-tied and will fight it at the game's expense.

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Posted : 04/07/2020 12:09 pm
(@frankg)
Noble Member

Rugby Union is similar to RL in that outside the 12-club Premiership, there seems to be little money and small crowds. Similarly, a number of the Premiership clubs rely on well-heeled benefactors to pay the high wages, although attendances are higher than the SL.

The RFU have also slashed the funding to clubs below the Championship, which rings a bell in RL

The difference is that there is quite an extensive league structure and an emphasis on international games, where the real money is made. The RFU also controls and allocates funding centrally. In RL, it appears that the SL controls the game,  to the cost of clubs in the lower leagues.

The sooner that the SL and its misguided international expansion plan ends, the better for the game in my view. The RFL, if it is capable of doing so with the current management, should take back control and realise that there must be a plan to restore and uplift the game in the UK. There needs to be a review of the structure and funding of the game, with views from all involved in the game including supporters.

In my view, we should revert to two divisions - a premiership of 18 teams and a championship of 18 teams - there are currently 37 teams in the "professional" game, including TWP, Toulouse and Catalan and from next year Ottawa. Personally, I see no place for North American team and these should be encouraged to develop a North American league structure as part of the development of the international game.

There should be a fairer allocation of funding based on specific development aims of clubs in terms of both players and attendances, as well as league position. This would not preclude local benefactors investing in their club, but within a strict salary structure monitored by the RFL. There could be some flexibility in the cap to reflect income from attendances.

The RFL should consider how the international game can be developed and expanded, in partnership with other countries, with the aim of developing a truly competitive international competition.  The present international structure is a farce. You could bet that the "World Cup" will be won by Australia, NZ or England (in that order).

If this means that teams cannot afford to pay contracts of £150,000 to players (or chief executives) in the short-term, then so be it. The current SL experiment has not worked,  Now is the time for change or to see the game slowly die in the UK. It may well be too late.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted : 04/07/2020 4:44 pm
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