Right..quite a few happy with our business so far ...equally some are not ..that's fair enough were all here to vent ..
So let's look at it so far in possibly terms of outs Vs ins ...coz it seriously depends on how you look at thing's..
Is Kirk a better prop than Hatton...imo absolutely..
Is Reilly a better prop farnworth...debatable.. although past two years says yes ..
Is lyodd a better back rower than Davies or brown ...yes...is he better than a fully fit Grady .. again debatable...
And here's the killer ...is brooks ..who many have slated a better PROP than Lawton ...having seen brooks many many times I will say yes ...he's far better defensively n that's a fact ...he's not an enigma that is unstoppable one game and then disappears for 5 just a steady Eddie...but ultimately Adam is never a prop ..if argument was 2nd row Adam dicks on him ..no disrespect to Adam but he's not a prop ..
Right now for me the only position were weaker in is at 6...and it's blindingly obvious..you can't lose a craven ability and think Lyons is comparable..if we don't address that it's pure criminal ..no disrespect to Joe but currently and previously sammut has been on the market..ford has recently come on it ..meadows contract was up at batley ...all may now have gigs but they were there ...all light years more skill ..and add sooo much more ..
All about perspective and how you look at thing's ... argument for everything..
What I will say is of all the things mooted is butt makes no sense whatsoever...
Well on the whole you & I seem to be saying the same things although you have not said if you think we will perform any better with the squad so far.
@geoffw think ultimately that will come down to the coach ...while every tom dick n Harry that think their an expert will say he's a poor appointment...there'll be a Derek Beaumont..Paul crarey..Andrew Henderson..Lee greenwood ..a shed load of players that say he's a class coach to name a few ...think I'll side with the latter ... no disrespect to any sideboard experts 😂 time will tell
Cumbria Viking a very good assessment and i loved Grady but the lad never played as much though due to work commitments. If he was not retiring I would have definitely have kept Grady. Hopefully Brooks trains hard and keeps fit which could make a difference to our team. I definitely want a replacement for Craven and I agree Lyons not the answer.
So on conclusion a centre/winger, Back rower and a number 6 to strengthen the squad. Then use loan/ dual registration to cover any injuries. It will be interesting if Lawton, Farnworth and Craven stay fit for Oldham? Lawton may go towards not bothered at 30 years old on a 2 year contract.
I'd also add every single Widnes fan knows over the season our pack was not up to the battle ...often accused of switching off ..lacking effort ..lacking size ..n tbf the clubs addressing it ...saw one comment on FB that new signings lack size ... fkinell Kirk is 6,4 n near 18st now ...Reilly 5'10 16st ..brooks 6'2 17st ..lyodd is a back rower 6'3 just short of 16st ...them boys are hardly midgets ...I'm all for it tbh ... guess we all need 43st props that can do 100m in 3 seconds lol
I'd also add every single Widnes fan knows over the season our pack was not up to the battle ...often accused of switching off ..lacking effort ..lacking size ..n tbf the clubs addressing it ...saw one comment on FB that new signings lack size ... fkinell Kirk is 6,4 n near 18st now ...Reilly 5'10 16st ..brooks 6'2 17st ..lyodd is a back rower 6'3 just short of 16st ...them boys are hardly midgets ...I'm all for it tbh ... guess we all need 43st props that can do 100m in 3 seconds lol
I am not sure why they are moaning because they all wanted a bigger pack. We have it now and what weight is Ant Walker? I feel Walker does need to get fitter and I think an expansive game might be good under Coleman. Just a number 6, big 2nd rower and a strike centre/winger and we are done. Then add loans and DR possibly for some extra quality.
I presume Dudson is not coming now?
@begg I genuinely do not get the meltdown with some fans on players leaving ...the club is completely right ...fact is when you get beyond certain peoples propaganda is certain players were offered by new 1 yr deals ..they turned them down for more security of a two yr deal in league 1,.... fairplay that's up to them...but on reflection that's the same as a football player in the premier League turning down a deal to stay in the PL to get a further year in the championship...so what's the motive ...money..end of....the moment you come across a player who's only motivation is money you sign a Dec Patton.....I say well played Widnes
@begg dudson last I heard was still a definite possibility but depended on a mutual release from the wire..what worries me is I think we could all guess we're the bigger contract's were last season but up to now I can't really think where we've tied big money into ...which bodes the question is their the bigger signings left for last or are we in fact cutting playing staff costs contrary to Hamilton saying we weren't
Looking at the fact that many are 2 year contracts seems to point to a two year 'project' for coach and players rather than a 'sh1tb or bust' rush for stardom.
Last seasons success relied on the 'old pals' playing for each other and enjoying it, but injuries stepped in and we never developed a real structure. Players like Lawton showed all the skills that we know he has, but they were only intermittent and his weaknesses like ball security etc were still there. Farnworth was working as hard as he could but was on his own at times, and vulnerable. With a bigger more consistent pack Farnworth can still develop, but all his energy didn't break the line often enough.
Our pack last year hardly ever got to play the same players week on week so you never managed to develop anything tactically. Walker is listed at 19 stone iirc and that is unlikely to change much I suspect, but its all in the application and that is hard to predict atm.
The main thing is that weight is consistent and is sustained throughout a game. Effort and energy from a lighter forward will drop as the game goes on and, unless he is very fit, will detract from the player's performance. We look like having a pack of size and experience so have to be hopeful.
It should be an interesting season with, hopefully, a progressive theme where we can see a pattern developing and succeeding. Just how the half back situation will change we'll have to wait and see.
I just wonder if Dudson will be the big surprise for Monday? Or am I being too positive?
TBH some of the players who left played out of posiition..cant compare and I do think those that left if cooached properly would have been better than this new squaud.props that werent props and seconf rowers who arent and werent...widnes next season with be bottom 4 fact. Swinton have recuruited better than widnes. Fact
TBH some of the players who left played out of posiition..cant compare and I do think those that left if cooached properly would have been better than this new squaud.props that werent props and seconf rowers who arent and werent...widnes next season with be bottom 4 fact. Swinton have recuruited better than widnes. Fact
You have, within the last few minutes, written basically the same wording on THREE separate threads.
We get the message, you don't like our recruiting, we are going to finish bottom of the league, the moon is made of Cream Cheese etc etc - give it a rest and think of something new to say instead of just boring us!
It isn't fact,just opinion.Widnes may well finish bottom four but it isn't fact until it happens.
SalWid there is no facts we will do worse or better. Sport is unpredictable and it is a full package of attitude, effort and integrity to work hard and play for each other. Who knows what the new coach will get out of players? Lyons for example might prove us all wrong and stand out. One thing in the Championship there are no games that are easy.
Squad strength will be important, so it be interesting if go dual and loan with a club this season.
Widnes, like most of the clubs that are sub-A grade in IMG are at a crossroads. Where do they spend their money? You cannot win your way into Super League it would seem.
With regards to the players that have gone, none of them have aided Widnes to a top half finish in 4 seasons since returning to the Championship. It's not worth losing sleep over the departures, it's not like any of them are going on to better things.
Craven is spent, he was okay on his day (not the superstar people made him out to be); Lawton was half arsed and there are dozens of Farnworth's in the Championship who could replicate/better his contributions.
As for the additions, they are somewhat uninspiring; however, this is to be expected. Widnes are not a top club, not even in the 2nd tier of Rugby League. I don't believe that the new players will improve on this past year, but one can only hope that something gels on the pitch.
I've seen a fair bit a jubilation online regarding the last couple of signings. If you are really excited or inspired by the signings of Martyn Reilly and Rhodri Lloyd, you need to have a word with yourself. It's a sad reflection on the expectations of the fans and club.
There's more than one way to go into administration; we've done it with "boom or bust" before and this time it'll be ever decreasing circles. As every season passes, the club tip-toe into oblivion.
@winny-ingram always great to hear such positive vibes