I think part of the disappointment is that we actually got better for a bit between the Toulouse hiding and the Featherstone game, but this was back to the first 6 weeks of the league season; with arguably the best bench we have been able to field for weeks too. As for the matchday experience, it hasn’t ever been that much of an ‘experience’ IMO, if we are playing well and winning more than we are losing then it doesn’t really come into it I don’t think. Let’s face it, since 2016 it has all been downhill really, with occasional good days. Everything now needs to be geared towards a solid end of the season in preparation for next year: one way or another we need to be in the Top 6, whether that is to stay in the 2nd tier or to be in the Play-Offs.
And yet people were far from happy in 2016, when things were great in comparison to now. No matter what the club do, they can’t win. There’ll always be something else to complain about.
The 2 are incomparable.
In 2016, many Widnes fans were blissfully unaware that their club was being bled dry by some smooth talking lowlife from Hull.
This year, the club is operating on a shoe string budget, the unfortunate consequence of above.
It’s thirty odd years since we won anything, we have been on the slide as a club for a long time due to chronic financial mis-management in the 1980’s. Don’t get me wrong the 80’s were a brilliant time to watch us from a fan perspective but since then we have been paying for the club’s buying players they couldn’t really afford. We then followed that up employing the wrong people for the jobs. They ranged from ex-players and willing amateurs to professionals who weren’t fit for purpose. With hindsight, when the club need management that could have perhaps saved or at least improved the situation we had people who would have struggled to run a corner shop.
Of course there were exceptions and there were a number of great servants at the club but wanting to make thing right and actually doing it are poles apart and the people with the club at heart were bailing water out of the leaking boat at best.
Having had a little rant, I have to say the club (and in general most clubs below the. ‘Big 4’ as we used to say) haven’t been helped by the way the game in general has been run. The game is set up now for large human beings to run at each other until one side makes a mistake. Ah for the days when Saints turned up with Murphy and Tommy Bishop or Swinton turned up with Gowers and Fleet of Barrow with Tommy Brophy or Leeds with Hardisty and Hepworth or Salford with Watkins or Gill or Keith Fielding …..
It’s not Widnes on the slide, it’s the game. I stood on the terrace when we played Workington in the early 60’s and the following Friday the Weekly News had a picture of the club house end and a caption that read ‘lowest crowd since the war’ - there were somewhere between 1300 - 1400 at the match. Yet 20 odd years later we were the World Champions and had some pretty respectable crowds (not least when we beat Wigan to win the League.
The game needs a makeover - scrap the Sky thing, go semi- pro if needs be and then build a solid platform - kids, grassroots etc and look at returning to a full professional set up when we have reached the point of kids (nationally ?) coming through the system into the adult game. Let’s hope the overhaul takes place and the proposed review comes up with something sensible and sustainable.
Watching the interviews with Murphy, Boston etc reminds you how the game was. Lads playing off their instinct and flair. Bit that's all gone, and not just in RL.
When big money comes in and players are looking to finance the rest of their lives from a few years playing it became a job in entertainment and results had a financial implication, not just bragging rights.
Things will change quite quickly I reckon. They will have to, and the big earners (both players and clubs) will have to realise that or we are lost.
I've said for years that the game will turn full circle and return to its natural level of semi professional. This is what is happening now with the reduced Sky contract and Sky now pressuring the game to restructure because of one sided matches.Thing is though, some clubs will still be at the bottom end in a 10 team league and one sided games will still be a regular thing.Somebody has to be bottom no matter what.Then they will pull the plug.
I’ve said for years that the game will turn full circle and return to its natural level of semi professional. This is what is happening now with the reduced Sky contract and Sky now pressuring the game to restructure because of one sided matches.Thing is though, some clubs will still be at the bottom end in a 10 team league and one sided games will still be a regular thing.Somebody has to be bottom no matter what.Then they will pull the plug.
But this will not alter the poor coaching and players lack of commitment at our club. If you cannot get the best out of the hand you are dealt then you should be asking why you here.
But this will not alter the poor coaching and players lack of commitment at our club. If you cannot get the best out of the hand you are dealt then you should be asking why you here.
There's a culture of accepting mediocrity at Widnes.Not just accepting it but in some cases rewarding it.Been like this for a long time.Next January will be 30 years since our last cup win v Leeds in the Regal Final.Thirty years!
But this will not alter the poor coaching and players lack of commitment at our club. If you cannot get the best out of the hand you are dealt then you should be asking why you here.
There’s a culture of accepting mediocrity at Widnes.Not just accepting it but in some cases rewarding it.Been like this for a long time.Next January will be 30 years since our last cup win v Leeds in the Regal Final.Thirty years!
Agreed but we just need to worry about the culture today. Sounds harsh but the only way is a clear out of everyone involved with the last culture and regime. Rule has gone but we are still been poisoned from by him, contracts and promotions in the club are still far too easy to come by,
If you think about it, we have gone from a situation where we had 1 coach for 7 1/2 years and since Betts went we have had 4 coaches in just over 3, including a season which ended after 7 games.
So if you are talking about culture; where is it coming from? Finney? Senior players?
Or is it the case in reality that we have always been just happy to muddle through this season anyway?
Is that the same for all those clubs who year on year have not won anything or not troubled the top of their respective leagues? Perhaps, quite simply as a club we have not been able to compete financially with the more successful clubs. Did we actually over-achieve in the 70s and 80s? Do you want the club to go into debt and try to buy success, which will inevitably come crashing down again?
The team we took into SL was not good enough and money was not spent to bring in better players, but lining the pockets of Directors. Perhaps Betts did well in keeping us in SL as long as he did, with the resources he had? Did sacking the coach in 2018 help in any way?
I really don't believe that there has been a "culture of mediocrity" at the club. I believe that there was a culture of greed during the Rule years, at the expense of the club. I believe that, like fans, the players, the coach and the Board want success on the field, but sometimes you have to be realistic and accept that there are some better teams out there that we may never be able to compete with in financial terms.
We have a squad that is too small and lacking in size and went into the season with key players injured. People can blame the Chief Executive and the Board for this, but we don't know what efforts have been made within our limited resources, to bring in players to strengthen the squad.
We have a new coach with limited coaching experience, but a decent career in the game. The start to the season was poor, with some terrible results and performances and a few posters on here were calling for him to be sacked. We then had a decent run of performances and the same posters were quiet. After the poor performance again on Sunday, the same posters are back calling for the coach and the Chief Executive to be sacked, without any suggestion or idea who we could realistically bring in who would do any better. In my view, we should judge the coach and the Board at the end of the season and see what plans and ambition are in place for 2022.
We might not win a trophy in the next 30 years, but if we have a team that can be competitive in whatever league we are in and gives it all on the pitch, that would be OK with me. If we can win some trophies along the way, that would be great. That is not accepting mediocrity, but being realistic.
If you were happy with either the performances of late 2016, or the dross that has been served up since, you might need to call Beat The Scrum!
In 2016, we were the 7th best team in the country beating Leeds and Wigan away. I would happily take that now.
We won two of the seven Super 8s games as well - including Wigan away! Lost 8-21 at home to St Helens, 26-40 away at Castleford - how terrible!
If you were happy with either the performances of late 2016, or the dross that has been served up since, you might need to call Beat The Scrum!
In 2016, we were the 7th best team in the country beating Leeds and Wigan away. I would happily take that now.
We won two of the seven Super 8s games as well – including Wigan away! Lost 8-21 at home to St Helens, 26-40 away at Castleford – how terrible!
That Cas game exhibited how good we were on our day, Hansbury linking up in back play perfectly, White been effective from 9 unfortunately our next performance against Wigan at home was utterly dreadful demonstrating how inconsistent we were under Betts.
The players and Betts deserved a better CEO than Rule. Unfortunately, it started going wrong in 2015, letting Isa go. Until that point we were signing players and building towards been play-off team year in year out but that decision not to sign Isa confirmed to the players that club wasn’t interested in a building a team capable of trophies. This what Brown said and it’s a shame as we could have been the next Cas.
I think signing Tom Armstrong and Tom Olbison as our main signings whilst selling Brown was the biggie!
Cas and Salford have shown what was achievable with the right management (Wembley and Old Trafford finals).
All water under the bridge now, be good to talk about a win at York which is surely within reach if you consider how poor they have been for the majority of the season!
Is that the same for all those clubs who year on year have not won anything or not troubled the top of their respective leagues? Perhaps, quite simply as a club we have not been able to compete financially with the more successful clubs. Did we actually over-achieve in the 70s and 80s? Do you want the club to go into debt and try to buy success, which will inevitably come crashing down again? The team we took into SL was not good enough and money was not spent to bring in better players, but lining the pockets of Directors. Perhaps Betts did well in keeping us in SL as long as he did, with the resources he had? Did sacking the coach in 2018 help in any way? I really don’t believe that there has been a “culture of mediocrity” at the club. I believe that there was a culture of greed during the Rule years, at the expense of the club. I believe that, like fans, the players, the coach and the Board want success on the field, but sometimes you have to be realistic and accept that there are some better teams out there that we may never be able to compete with in financial terms. We have a squad that is too small and lacking in size and went into the season with key players injured. People can blame the Chief Executive and the Board for this, but we don’t know what efforts have been made within our limited resources, to bring in players to strengthen the squad. We have a new coach with limited coaching experience, but a decent career in the game. The start to the season was poor, with some terrible results and performances and a few posters on here were calling for him to be sacked. We then had a decent run of performances and the same posters were quiet. After the poor performance again on Sunday, the same posters are back calling for the coach and the Chief Executive to be sacked, without any suggestion or idea who we could realistically bring in who would do any better. In my view, we should judge the coach and the Board at the end of the season and see what plans and ambition are in place for 2022. We might not win a trophy in the next 30 years, but if we have a team that can be competitive in whatever league we are in and gives it all on the pitch, that would be OK with me. If we can win some trophies along the way, that would be great. That is not accepting mediocrity, but being realistic.
Firstly Betts was one of those lining his pockets, he got paid a ludicrous amount of money, don't believe me then ask Mr Carney who was as amazed as myself. The club just wanted to tick boxes for everyone but the fans. They bowed at every opportunity to the RFL, as long as the community work was done and there was harmony everywhere but on the pitch then the club was happy. The culture of stability for everyone within still remains today. As for the CEO the lack of experience has truly shown and the buck always stops with him. In case you didn't know he was Jimmy's nodding lackey who agreed with every lie that was told. How do I know ? well I attended a fans meeting with the both of them rattling of a waffle of un truths. When was the last time any of our management came out and slated the players for there efforts on the field or even dropped a player for no effort ?. Are you getting the gist of the same rotten culture that lies within the club?
Academy coach to CEO is un heard of and a hell of weird choice which shows the real lack of experience throughout. Before appointing a new coach we really need to appoint somebody who knows how to run a RL club, until that happens then nothing will change and the easy life culture will always be around. I want to see pride and commitment back at our club before it is too late and the damage irreversible.
What we actually need is someone running the club who understands how business works. Whoever it is needs to be supported, but not necessarily be directed by, someone who understands Rugby League. The fans see it as a game but within the club it has to be a business.
Widnes didn't need a CEO on mega bucks when we were in SL.We were a small time, small town club with 4500 supporters, not Manchester Utd or Real Madrid. A general manager such as John Stringer in the late 80s could have filled the role of both Rule and O'Connor's brother for a quarter of their combined salary.