£42000 equates to over 200 season tickets, it is well short of the money lost to people not renewing but where would the club be without it ?. Fair play to the board but IMO they need someone involved who has experience of running a RL club. I have said many times before that you need to look after the fans you have before trying to recruit more otherwise it's a Peter and Paul situation. Communication has been the real problem for the club and maybe (a massive maybe) that Jimmy may have had a valid point when he blamed the council for some things. HBC has been far too dictating on how fans are received and with the club not challenging this maybe due to naivety it has had a huge impact on fans not attending or renewing.
As you suggest James the central funding could well become derisory in term of financing a club and in those circumstances we should be better off than most. I get the impression that small businessmen are helping some clubs but it isn't clear by how much tbh. The loan signings or true signings must be financed by something and many gates are well down compared to ours.
However, in my view we have to start showing that we are looking for players for next year at least, preparing the ground to show players and supporters that we are aiming higher next year. Our supporters have been long suffering and the crowd response, even after a loss, shows their appreciation.
But that will fade if we don't look to be trying to improve next year and if possible this year too!
For anybody who has like myself bought a new "third" shirt. Just have a look at the number of names front and back on it. As an aside to this debate I thought I would see how many actually gave their monies back to the club last year (sad i know) There are 135 lines of 14/15 names which equates to over 1950/2050 season tickets. There were approx 15% took their cash back that's almost 2300 totally sold season tickets last year, more than all the other clubs (maybe not Bradford) in our league. The girls in the market said this year we are slightly less but near to 2,000 sold, again more than any club in our league. We have VIQI which on their last memo to us said it was remaining over 1000 payees of approx £15 per month which equates to again approx £180,000 plus. Our sponsorship is massive compared to others so central funding will for us not be a problem as James suggests BUT with all our finances good or bad why are we languishing in the bottom half of a table with clubs that should not be competing with us let alone defeating and sometime embarrassing us and why did our CEO promise us (money there) SL overspill players and non arrived. Cheap option......... heard that before
It would be reasonable as the first year of the plan to consolidate, build reserves and prepare to progress in the second year.
But, that said, we were promised signings this year to bolster our thin squad. Of course Covid and lack of crowds, likely lower central funding etc could have skewed the plan somewhat but there is still time to add to the squad and thereby show intentions for next year.
If all this is to succeed keeping ST holders and VIQI onside is vital.
£42000 equates to over 200 season tickets, it is well short of the money lost to people not renewing but where would the club be without it ?. Fair play to the board but IMO they need someone involved who has experience of running a RL club. I have said many times before that you need to look after the fans you have before trying to recruit more otherwise it’s a Peter and Paul situation. Communication has been the real problem for the club and maybe (a massive maybe) that Jimmy may have had a valid point when he blamed the council for some things. HBC has been far too dictating on how fans are received and with the club not challenging this maybe due to naivety it has had a huge impact on fans not attending or renewing.
Someone with experience of running an RL club like James Rule, you mean?
Of course HBC have a hold over the club and always will - that's down to the club selling them the stadium in the 90s. You can't have your cake and eat it. That's not the current custodians fault, but they are where they are.
For anybody who has like myself bought a new “third” shirt. Just have a look at the number of names front and back on it. As an aside to this debate I thought I would see how many actually gave their monies back to the club last year (sad i know) There are 135 lines of 14/15 names which equates to over 1950/2050 season tickets. There were approx 15% took their cash back that’s almost 2300 totally sold season tickets last year, more than all the other clubs (maybe not Bradford) in our league. The girls in the market said this year we are slightly less but near to 2,000 sold, again more than any club in our league. We have VIQI which on their last memo to us said it was remaining over 1000 payees of approx £15 per month which equates to again approx £180,000 plus. Our sponsorship is massive compared to others so central funding will for us not be a problem as James suggests BUT with all our finances good or bad why are we languishing in the bottom half of a table with clubs that should not be competing with us let alone defeating and sometime embarrassing us and why did our CEO promise us (money there) SL overspill players and non arrived. Cheap option……… heard that before
York took a shed load of Super League rejects, largely with lots of experience, and they are below even us.
The player market has been horrendous due to COVID and the various protocols. I'd expect the club to be in a much better position recruitment wise for 2022; though again a lot will depend on how Super League is made up. If Leigh come down (as expected), some players that we may have otherwise been able to tempt to play part-time (let's say Kyle Amor) may end up at Leigh playing hybrid or full-time.
As you suggest James the central funding could well become derisory in term of financing a club and in those circumstances we should be better off than most. I get the impression that small businessmen are helping some clubs but it isn’t clear by how much tbh. The loan signings or true signings must be financed by something and many gates are well down compared to ours. However, in my view we have to start showing that we are looking for players for next year at least, preparing the ground to show players and supporters that we are aiming higher next year. Our supporters have been long suffering and the crowd response, even after a loss, shows their appreciation. But that will fade if we don’t look to be trying to improve next year and if possible this year too!
Clubs need to get away from relying on central funding and should operate a proper commercial business. I have faith that Widnes are trying to do that on a sustainable basis, based on multiple conversations I've had with various people. They have to take a cautious approach given you can't really trust where the RFL are going to take things; exactly why the club made the decision on the academy and I presume will take stock until the situation is clearer.
Looking at the Championship clubs - clearly Toulouse are spending way more money than most; Featherstone spend too though they also have some good relationships with Leeds etc that help them out and their ground situation is a benefit to them; London's owner has put in millions; York have clearly got a benefactor too; Newcastle are backed by the RU owner who is a wealthy man too and have access to all the facilities/staff of a top union club; and that's not mentioning Bradford who despite their troubles have a bigger fanbase than us.
So depending on where you value fanbase versus sugar daddy, we should be about 5th/6th in the table. In the last month, we've lost two games by a total of three points; win those two and we'd be 6th.
I don't think anyone would deny Widnes have underperformed this season - but that happens sometimes; not to mention when you lose your coach a week before pre-season starts; and your best/highest paid player in the most important position is out injured for the season.
Is Tomkins definitely out for the season
With the squad we have I would say we have performed pretty much as expected, did the bookies have us to finish in about 7th place, they are usually not far off? We are currently running with a squad of 17 fit players, 2 of which are young backs who aren't being used, so really a squad of 15. Mid table is a decent effort given the circumstances. Hopefully with the extra weeks rest we can get 4 players back, but you are always going to be missing a few, it's the nature of a high impact sport. Featherstone said to be missing 12 and still looked a solid outfit. If you took 12 players out of our 25 man squad we wouldn't be able to raise a team.
I honestly don’t think that the position on the league table matters at all. Of course we want to see the team win and be in the mix for promotion and cup finals but, at the moment, there are more important things at stake.
I agree, at least in theory, that we should be able to stand as a commercial business free of central funding, but that presupposes that there is a market for the business - that there are sufficient customers to ‘buy’ what the business is ‘selling’ and I just don’t see that at the moment.
We, along with most of the clubs playing in the current set up, are not free to act on our own business plan (assuming we have one) because of the constraints (financial and otherwise) controlled by the RFL, who in turn, through their own flawed decision making are reliant on a single major source of external funding, which we all know is about to be reduced, but to what extent, for our club neither we (nor probably and alarmingly the RFL) know.
As James said, it would appear that the current set up are trying their best to build and protect a sustainable future for the club based on sound financial management (even if that means we won’t b3 buying ‘superstars’ just yet, to the annoyance of us fans).
The trouble still remains that whilst our house is being put in order, the house, along with all the other houses on 5he street is being threatened by a massive storm, simmering away at the end of the street which could very well flatten everything.
I honestly don’t think that the position on the league table matters at all. Of course we want to see the team win and be in the mix for promotion and cup finals but, at the moment, there are more important things at stake. I agree, at least in theory, that we should be able to stand as a commercial business free of central funding, but that presupposes that there is a market for the business – that there are sufficient customers to ‘buy’ what the business is ‘selling’ and I just don’t see that at the moment. We, along with most of the clubs playing in the current set up, are not free to act on our own business plan (assuming we have one) because of the constraints (financial and otherwise) controlled by the RFL, who in turn, through their own flawed decision making are reliant on a single major source of external funding, which we all know is about to be reduced, but to what extent, for our club neither we (nor probably and alarmingly the RFL) know. As James said, it would appear that the current set up are trying their best to build and protect a sustainable future for the club based on sound financial management (even if that means we won’t b3 buying ‘superstars’ just yet, to the annoyance of us fans). The trouble still remains that whilst our house is being put in order, the house, along with all the other houses on 5he street is being threatened by a massive storm, simmering away at the end of the street which could very well flatten everything.
Take your point RV. Totally agree with the consolidation policy for this year (so long as we avoid relegation!). There is a hardcore support base in the town/area and that will back the Board as they are finding their way. We need as many as we can get to keep faith and we should/could be OK.
Looking at next year's options and seem to recall that, in Harold Lynskey's time I think, we were persuaded to buy a two year ST. Is that right or am I dreaming? I would be into something like that tbh, to give a boost for next year.
While it gives a boost for next year, what about the year after?
While it gives a boost for next year, what about the year after?
I'm not suggesting that all the income is spent in one shot but it could give a buffer to take us beyond the year by year approach.
As it stands, from the parlous position that the club was in after Admin, the Board had extremely limited funds which made it difficult to be able to look ahead until the cash is in the till. The club cannot take ST purchases for granted, nor should it, so things like VIQI and a few quid in the bank could smooth out that cash flow and give the club some reserves.
Our signings and staffing to date compared with the rough income assessments from posters on this thread seem to suggest that the Board may already holding back in preparation for a bigger effort next year. In that sense they may already be establishing some reserves, as any well run business should.
That is a sound and careful approach but it does limit ability to sign or even talk to players early and to sketch out a financial plan for anything more than a couple of months ahead, by which time others may well have pinched your player. An early ST input would add to any reserves to put the club in a stronger financial position sooner.
My concern is maintaining the community support that has sustained the club through its recent problems. That could be helped by giving us a vision of what the plan is. Not the detail necessarily but at least a sense of direction, as Powell did for Castleford.