@martin I’m just guessing like I said, what would the average championship salary be in your opinion? I would assume the likes of Grady, Lyons etc are on around 20k? So full timers could be easily on 40k smith craven Owens fozzard.
it would be interesting to know what budget the club has to spend on the playing squad for example, I don’t want each players salary but an indicator to what a top player and senior/junior squad player would be good to know. I am not asking the club to publish this information but more what you guys think in this regard
Any super-fan looking to take over at Widnes is staring at (1) buying the current lot out, (2) haggling with the council to buy the ground and (3) overhauling the playing staff to take us full-time to ensure a shot at promotion. That would put us on an even keel to move forward as a proper promotion candidate and then a full-time operation with a chance of surviving in SL.
But that would be a major investment before there is even the chance of promotion. And then, if we did get promoted, we know we're not going to be making anyone any money, we're only going to be pulling in 5k spectators most weeks. Other than someone who is a fan and doesn't care about throwing millions at it, of which there can't be that many this is Widnes we're talking about, who would see that as appealing?
Considering where we were at a couple of years ago, I'm thankful to the current board and to the VIQI contributions for at least putting us where we are, we should really have gone under. So, I'm grateful for that. But, am I thrilled at the thought of Championship rugby for the rest of my life? Not really but I'll take it.
@ Sinbad, great post.
From my perspective, I never really get the connection between the number of fans and the team’s ability. I do understand the point that the more fans we have the more revenue we should have to spend on players, amongst other outgoings but just because we can spend more money on players doesn’t mean that we get the right ones. We have spent quite a bit on new players this season (we replaced half of last year’s squad) but we managed not only to sign another apparently injury prone forward but also in a key position we have failed to properly address for about three seasons. We will lose more games than we win if we can’t get control of a game and get on top of the opposition.
@martin I mean full time wages for the championship, 30-50k a year
Surely not, no one at Widnes should be on that much; its not practical for a part time club to pay that much. Maybe Craven and Owens as Full timers but I remember talking to a SL player and he said he was earning a decent teachers salary, which isn't 50,000
Martin Mac is not far off the mark, I have said from day one that nobody should be full time in a part time set up. What you need to decide is it value for money my opinion is a big fat no. Agree about our VIQI and more fans than does not seem to put us in a better position.
IMO it will be a long dour season unless the coaching improves as I have not yet seen anything being altered or rectified.
@gpo1971 I would hope that in this situation the current board would happily sign over and the council can do a 15 year lease or it’s agreed that the stadium returns to council ownership upon the sale of the club
the stadium from what I understand, we don’t see a penny yet we have to pay rent to play and train at the stadium. I believe the council kind of hold us to ransom in this regard.
Good to see the positivity on here. We have lost two league games and are 4th in the league, yet are already writing off the season, the coach, the team and the club!
Two league games from six which by my reckoning is one third.They weren't just losses, they were hammerings.
Part of it too is the fact we haven't had a good or even pretty good League Season for 6 years.
Let's not forget that either!
The last thing we need is an Ego Driven investor who will come in, run the club like a toy and then sod off at the first sign of trouble, or when they get bored.
What we need is people running this club that love it and have their best interest at heart. With our support we should be able to build momentum and hopefully support to drive growth in our crowds. Promotion of games can be expensive, but it can also be cheap if you engage the support base to help. As a club we need to be creative and active.
Im an out of town supporter, but what is engagement like with the local community clubs nowadays?
Point is, you dont need a megga money investor, yes it can work as it has at Hudds, And atm Leigh. But that does not seem to be an option so what we need to focus on is being well run, active in the community and creative in our marketing of matches.
@gpo1971 I would hope that in this situation the current board would happily sign over and the council can do a 15 year lease or it’s agreed that the stadium returns to council ownership upon the sale of the club
the stadium from what I understand, we don’t see a penny yet we have to pay rent to play and train at the stadium. I believe the council kind of hold us to ransom in this regard.
We don't see a penny from the ground because we don't own it, the council do. We sold it to them to clear debts, partly in the 90s and then the remainder in the early 2000s. I don't know if the council hold us to ransom, I have no idea what the rent agreement is. Us not earning money on the ground is not the council's problem, it's our fault.
I'm just pointing out that I think this is a major sticking point in terms of attracting investment and potentially new ownership. The biggest money-making asset that most clubs enjoy, namely the ground, wouldn't be included in the Widnes package. How much would the council want for the ground? £3M, £5M, £10M, I have no idea. But it just makes us less appealing I think.
@sinbad I would take a 66% win rate this season, which should see us finish around 4th place in the league.
I agree really poor performances against Barrow and York, but 34-24 can hardly be described as a hammering.
There is a long way to go this season, so let’s not write us off just yet.
As for investment, the reality is that unless someone comes along who is prepared to throw millions at the club, with little or no chance of any return, we have to rely on fans and sponsors and whatever crumbs SL throws to the Championship/League 1. Having said that, with the fan base we have and VIQI funding, we must be one of the better funded Championship teams.
@Frank, we aren’t going to finish fourth mate.
@gpo1971 An investor would want the ground in the deal for their benefit and not the club’s, to offer some protection for their investment and collateral for loans. You are right to point out the reason why we don’t own the ground was due to the club’s perilous financial position at the time and the need to clear debts.
Whether the council would be prepared to sell the ground to any potential investor, is a matter for them and whether it would provide value for money. I presume that the club is the main tenant of the ground and, if an investor threatened to move the club to a new ground, say in Liverpool!!, unless a deal could be agreed, there may be scope for discussion. I am sure that any deal would require continued community use and restrictions on future use. The calculation for the club would then be to compare potential income from the use of the ground against the current rent paid and the cost of any loan repayments.
In a way, we are in the position we are in as a club as a result of the success of the club in the 70’s/80’s, when we overstretched ourselves financially in an attempt to maintain the success we had at that time; and poor management since then leading to administration. Success requires investment and continuing success requires more investment. Once there is a reduction in success levels, there is likely a reduction in income and unless further investment is forthcoming, the result is inevitable.
@Frank, we aren’t going to finish fourth mate.
You may well be right, but I live in hope and expect a play-off place. I was only pointing out that a 66% win rate (or 33% loss rate) is not a disaster, as seems to have been suggested.
The only investor we will ever get is some dodgy business man wanting planning permission in the town. Don't fall for this owning your own ground reaps dividends. Take Barrow as an example a few hundred people buying a pie and a pint won't rake in much money after insurance fees and stewarding costs where as Widnes just pay a set rent all in, add to that the upkeep etc it gets one thinking.
On the playing front fans need to take a look at just who we have beaten and who has trashed us, imo we have been in a false position and until the coaching improves a play off place will not be easy.
Having seen the goings on at other sporting clubs were "investors" have got their mitts on stadiums I'm more than happy for the council to keep this one under their control.