Making a case for the Chemics

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 39 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #4520
    Spike Island 90
    • Posts: 116
    • North Stander
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    I am sick and tired of the rhetoric that is been purported on here and on social media regarding our value as a club. People need to get their heads out of the sand and understand that RL is a minority sport played by a tiny percentage of the population.

    The idea that Widnes isn’t big enough for SL is trash and sounds like Mo Lindsey talking point. Here are the facts:

     

    1. Widnes averaged almost 6,000 fans in 2017 a year were Widnes first last in a dreadful season. What would a consistent successful Widnes team would attract? In contrast, Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield affect less than 5,500 and putting it into perspective Salford achieved their best season in 2019 yet averaged less than 4,000 fans.

    2. Wigan (apparently the biggest club in SL) was attracting less than 9,000 fans in 2018,  so the issue regarding Widnes attendance is nonsense.
    3. Widnes are 6th most successful club in the game, Widnes has big profile particularly in Wales for obvious reasons.
    4. Widnes vs Leigh (2019) was the most watched televised championship game ever or had the highest audience of all the rl games played that season (not sure which one it was?).

    5. Widnes as a town has continued to produce a convey belt of players for the past 60 years.

    The point is if Widnes aren’t “big” enough then half the SL isn’t either. And to those globalists who believe that the game is going to take over the world, sorry to disappoint but it isn’t it. RL isn’t as great as some make out, we are a minority sport that thrives in the heartlands and until the game accepts what it is then the game will continue to stagnate.

    #4523
    Frankg
    • Posts: 242
    • First Teamer
    • ☆☆☆☆☆☆

    I am sick and tired of the rhetoric that is been purported on here and on social media regarding our value as a club. People need to get their heads out of the sand and understand that RL is a minority sport played by a tiny percentage of the population. The idea that Widnes isn’t big enough for SL is trash and sounds like Mo Lindsey talking point. Here are the facts: 1. Widnes averaged almost 6,000 fans in 2017 a year were Widnes first last in a dreadful season. What would a consistent successful Widnes team would attract? In contrast, Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield affect less than 5,500 and putting it into perspective Salford achieved their best season in 2019 yet averaged less than 4,000 fans. 2. Wigan (apparently the biggest club in SL) was attracting less than 9,000 fans in 2018, so the issue regarding Widnes attendance is nonsense. 3. Widnes are 6th most successful club in the game, Widnes has big profile particularly in Wales for obvious reasons. 4. Widnes vs Leigh (2019) was the most watched televised championship game ever or had the highest audience of all the rl games played that season (not sure which one it was?). 5. Widnes as a town has continued to produce a convey belt of players for the past 60 years. The point is if Widnes aren’t “big” enough then half the SL isn’t either. And to those globalists who believe that the game is going to take over the world, sorry to disappoint but it isn’t it. RL isn’t as great as some make out, we are a minority sport that thrives in the heartlands and until the game accepts what it is then the game will continue to stagnate.

     

    Well said. Why can’t RL be successful as a so called minority sport in the UK. There are too many people running down the game outside SL and seem happy to see it die in the name of expansion.

    The international big city expansion is nothing to do with the growth of RL. In fact, it is more likely to kill the game at community level. That expansion is about money and greed based on a hope that a big NA tv deal will bring in more money for a few chosen teams, which may well not include the likes of Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield and a few others who do not fit the profile.

    I actually believe that with the right people promoting the game in the UK, there is scope for expansion within the UK/Europe but it needs a structured approach with the right people involved who have the interests of the game at heart and not just an opportunity for a few clubs and players to rake in extra money. As you say, if we stay as a community based minority sport in the north of England, why not?

    Widnes has had great teams and has been a successful club and still retains a strong local fan base, There is no reason why we can’t get back to those glory days with a good management team and a strong squad.

    #4524
    Spike Island 90
    • Posts: 116
    • North Stander
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    I will always use the Cas example, back in 2013 they were attracting 5,700 fans, 4 years later after great success they were attracting 7,700, town with similar demographic/population as Widnes.

    I am not too sure where this big tv deal is coming from, the American tv network isn’t what it was. HBO walked away from boxing because of its fading popularity. Union will get a tv deal before league since union is 100 times as popular there compared to league.

     

    The issue RFL should be addressing why the Manchester area is no longer interested in rugby league.

    #4525
    sandgroper
    • Posts: 440
    • First Teamer
    • ☆☆☆☆☆☆

    Seems like we have been so close but somehow  we don’t have the means to see it through. This latest admin situation is a different situation. The fans, plus a few prepared to stand as a Board, have saved the situation rather than a chequebook in one man’s hands. If we can maintain that we can get there. More fans, hopefully backing a team that is good to watch, maybe winning more than we lose, could increase our support via VIQI etc could be a new beginning.

    I think we are all unhappy with the game’s management and we somehow have to see out the NA fantasy and continue to grow steadily. Hopefully we can maintain our effort, though Covid is a .problem.

    Our competition, sadly, might have more cash to play with and peck away at our team. It will be a test of character for everyone if we are to succeed. But there is a different feel this time. TS has just arrived at the right time it seems and success on the field could make a massive difference.

    Steady progress is probably all that we can hope for atm, most teams seem to be building and we still need a few more players to make us strong enough to cope with injuries etc.

    We also need to attract another clever coach to follow TS and continue the rebuild.

    #4527
    MT
    • Posts: 93
    • Time to get a VIQI
    • ☆☆☆☆

    I totally agree that Widnes is and always has been a big enough club with a big enough fanbase to be a reasonably competitive SL side at the very least.

    The failure of the previous regime on and off the field doesn’t change that view. We should be looking to earn promotion in the next few seasons and keep building from there.

    #4528
    PK
    • Posts: 2
    • New signing

    The “bosses” at RL are not interested in the the smaller town clubs who are actually the ones who were responsible for the formation of Rugby League.

    They want the big cities in North America. A NA Tv deal (some hope). Why, the hope is it may give them the opportunity to pay themselves much higher salaries.

    Grass roots rugby is not something that they are interested in.

    Fortunately we have a board who are in it for the sake of the game not for financial gain.

    Keep supporting our board.

    #4529
    Former Chemic
    • Posts: 96
    • Time to get a VIQI
    • ☆☆☆☆

    Well said PK. Despite more and more soccer being played locally, Widnes is still an RL town and we need to continue our support the Vikings to give something for our schools and splendid amateur sides to aim for.

    After the recent shocking management debacle, and despite the virus complications, the club seems to be growing steadily both on and off the pitch. As sandgroper has implied, this and a winning team should see us do well in the championship and hopefully, in time, lead to promotion.

     

    #4531
    sandgroper
    • Posts: 440
    • First Teamer
    • ☆☆☆☆☆☆

    The big factor regarding just how far we can go comes down to the stamina of us, the fans, mainly. Saving our club was the panic phase and it was successful. This effor, insofar as the finances are concerned, has to continue via VIQI and ST’s. We have to swell the funds rather than spending it all. This then provides the backup if SL becomes a reality. Use it to top up club signings etc as we do now, but carefully.

    There is something of a panic in SL atm, due to the TWP fiasco. The RFL will promote or choose a club simply to balance the SL competition, but they will be there under sufferance and will be discarded whenever it suits. The SL clubs make no secret of their greed and don’t want to share anything and imo they will be more than happy to welcome any new applicants who are self financing. They may well choose Leigh if Degsy will foot his own bill!! You couldn’t get a more blatant self-centred crowd tbh. Their view of the rest of the RL family is pretty poor – ‘loosers’ in Trump terms.

    #4532
    Spike Island 90
    • Posts: 116
    • North Stander
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    I will say it again, DB should have been disqualified from owning a rugby league team, I know we are tinpot sport run by tinpot people but no owner should be allowed to do what he did.

    Fundamentally, prior to SL and prior to Wigan’s 90’s dominance the competition was more polarised, SL was an opportunity for a few clubs to take control of the game and carry out a monopoly, a monopoly that still exists today. As a result, certain clubs will always dominate and control rl. In a 12 team, isn’t a fundamental flaw that Wigan or St Helens have never finished in the bottom 4.

    #4535
    sandgroper
    • Posts: 440
    • First Teamer
    • ☆☆☆☆☆☆

    What you say, Spike is true, and it probably won’t change until one of their benefactors goes bust or dies. Leneghan (sic?) has stuffed aver a million extra into the Wigan pot over the past few years alone. The Saints management has, from what we get in the press established something like a Trustfund to make sure that Saints don’t go bust. I am not a financier and I don’t know how its done but it sounds good sense and also the sort of thing that a backer/fan with financial wit might do. It could do for them what VIQI was set up to do for us. It is good sense but needs feeding occasionally.

    Regarding DB the truth is that the RFL aren’t going to stop anyone pouring cash into the game. We had Vaughan for God’s sake!

    The only good thing atm is that whilst nobody knows just where the UK game is going  atm we are all interested enough to care. It is frustrating and annoying and it has been for years. None of the Yorkshire clubs will kick against Leeds and very few will argue with any success against Wigan/Saints/Wire. They have the clout in financial terms and maybe it will need the NA idea to collapse and leave them all poorer before they will get back to real RL.

    #4537
    Viking25
    • Posts: 123
    • North Stander
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    I am sick and tired of the rhetoric that is been purported on here and on social media regarding our value as a club. People need to get their heads out of the sand and understand that RL is a minority sport played by a tiny percentage of the population. The idea that Widnes isn’t big enough for SL is trash and sounds like Mo Lindsey talking point. Here are the facts: 1. Widnes averaged almost 6,000 fans in 2017 a year were Widnes first last in a dreadful season. What would a consistent successful Widnes team would attract? In contrast, Salford, Wakefield and Huddersfield affect less than 5,500 and putting it into perspective Salford achieved their best season in 2019 yet averaged less than 4,000 fans. 2. Wigan (apparently the biggest club in SL) was attracting less than 9,000 fans in 2018, so the issue regarding Widnes attendance is nonsense. 3. Widnes are 6th most successful club in the game, Widnes has big profile particularly in Wales for obvious reasons. 4. Widnes vs Leigh (2019) was the most watched televised championship game ever or had the highest audience of all the rl games played that season (not sure which one it was?). 5. Widnes as a town has continued to produce a convey belt of players for the past 60 years. The point is if Widnes aren’t “big” enough then half the SL isn’t either. And to those globalists who believe that the game is going to take over the world, sorry to disappoint but it isn’t it. RL isn’t as great as some make out, we are a minority sport that thrives in the heartlands and until the game accepts what it is then the game will continue to stagnate.

    I don’t think this gets the credit is deserves.

    Would like to see a list of players at other clubs who’ve come through the Widnes system one way or another. There must be 40+ players out there. Nearly every SL club have got one of our players in their first team squad.

    Considering the size of the town, our neighbours, the resources etc it’s a great effort and a testimony to the club.

    #4538
    sandgroper
    • Posts: 440
    • First Teamer
    • ☆☆☆☆☆☆

    But surely we have to ask why these players are not playing for us? Is it just better pay elsewhere, or more chance of a place in the first team, or have we kept experienced players too long after their performances have been below what we need from experienced players and failed to promote youngsters quickly enough?

     

    #4541
    Spike Island 90
    • Posts: 116
    • North Stander
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    But surely we have to ask why these players are not playing for us? Is it just better pay elsewhere, or more chance of a place in the first team, or have we kept experienced players too long after their performances have been below what we need from experienced players and failed to promote youngsters quickly enough?

    Id say it’s a combination of money, status and also security, signing for Saints you have a full time contract, whereas at Widnes, there’s always financial uncertainty.
    Not naming names, but there’s two prominent Widnes lads playing for SL clubs who turned downWidnes, interestingly enough they were rarely attending Widnes games growing up hence the no connection to play for the club.

    Ultimately, I think any young player with a brain should be chomping to sign for Widnes. Sign at 16, go college till 18, get a chance in the first team pretty easily (due to Widnes scarce resources)go university till 21 while playing part time championship rugby and developing their game, leave uni at 21, sign for a SL club. Subsequently, you could retire 34 having spent 13 years in SL and leave the game with qualifications.

    #4542
    Royston Vasey
    • Posts: 19
    • Kemik’s Assistant
    • ☆☆

    As a Widnes fan, for Widnes to flourish (or at least have a chance to flourish) the people who run the game itself need to decide what the game is to be : a worldwide sport with feeder leagues in different countries, a semi-professional game with part-time players, an amateur game with players getting match day expenses, or something completely different, or maybe a combination of things, perhaps including some of those I’ve mentioned.

    As part of deciding, the decision makers also need to look at a proper structure for the sustainability of the game – finance, grass roots management, sustainability, short, medium, long term growth.

    If we can reach that point – an actual blueprint for the future of a sustainable game, then we can discuss what fans of Widnes can do for Widnes to be part of the proper plan.

    #4543
    Royston Vasey
    • Posts: 19
    • Kemik’s Assistant
    • ☆☆

    Sorry, the other thing that I meant to say was that Widnes can only achieve very little if the running of the game doesn’t improve and there is no real point in ‘throwing good money after bad’ as things currently stand.

Back to Forum Home | Mark Topic Read  | 
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 39 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.