Lingard and the future.

I said similar on an other thread. We have over two thousand season ticket holders, more than two thirds of our division have supporters, yet we are in the bottom half of the division, we have VIQI that provides us with almost two hundred thousand of extra cash but we fail to underachieve. We have no debts for the ground just rent and all work is carried out by our landlords yet we continue to struggle along with "kids" making up in some cases the bulk of our team. If central funding is cut it will affect us of course but what I would like to know is; where does the money we produce go NOW.

I said similar on an other thread. We have over two thousand season ticket holders, more than two thirds of our division have supporters, yet we are in the bottom half of the division, we have VIQI that provides us with almost two hundred thousand of extra cash but we fail to underachieve. We have no debts for the ground just rent and all work is carried out by our landlords yet we continue to struggle along with “kids” making up in some cases the bulk of our team. If central funding is cut it will affect us of course but what I would like to know is; where does the money we produce go NOW.

I think the club said that we were financially secure at the start of the season, which some of us took to mean that we could pay operational costs for the season - player’s wages, insurance coverage, medical bills accrued during the year, rental payment, payments for part time coaching and admin staff, travel costs for away games, and all the other operating costs that businesses have to pay (like Her Majesty’ Customs and Excise Taxation). Some people took it to mean that we could go out and buy players......

The simple fact is that as a small semi-professional club who very nearly went out of existence a couple of years ago we are not an attractive proposition for anybody who is half way decent in either SL and certainly not from Australia. We are not even a tempting proposition for any semi-pros who live a fair distance away (Cumbria or Yorkshire say) as they would struggle to make training if they are permanently employed in a ‘good’ job and with Covid restricting movements for the past 15 months people are even less likely to join.

We are a small club who dodged a bullet when the last lot left the club in a mess but that probably wasn’t the last bullet in the gun. Without central funding we are stuffed - at least whilst those RFL persist in ‘running’ the game in such a lopsided manner.

As an aside, I’d be absolutely staggered if we have 2k season ticket holders next season, especially if we go back into lockdown again.

Not sure we are underachieving with the squad we have. Thought we would struggle to make the play offs without reinforcements in the pack and with all three season-long loan players gone we have added only Lewis Hulme to that squad with Tomkins and Jewitt having not played/barely played. There was an imbalance in the number of backs (particular wingers) compared to forwards which comes down to recruitment prior to the appointment of the current coach. Not sure what our funding situation will be next year but a balanced squad has to be a priority to give our coach and players the best chance of success. Think we are going to finish 7th- 9th on our first full season post admin and the next objective must be making the playoffs in 2022.

This is typical of the way that the game is managed (or mismanaged). It has been clear for some time that there would be a massive cut in the Sky money and the actual deal was announced in April. SL/RFL should have been addressing this issue probably 2/3 years ago and yet, halfway through the season, clubs are in the dark about what funding will be available to clubs in 2022, or seemingly for winning anything this year.

Clubs themselves should have been planning last year or earlier for a big cut in central funding from the Sky deal and those who have not made contingency plans to make efforts to increase local income streams and happy to sit back and wait for the crumbs from central funding, probably deserve to be in trouble. I think Championship clubs received between £150,000 and £800,000 depending on where they finished in the league, with SL clubs each getting £1.825m and L1 clubs each getting £75,000. With a reduction of up to 30% in the Sky money, I would expect Championship clubs will face the biggest cut.

Things will never change until the control of the game is taken away from the self interest of a few clubs in SL. The call to bring the management of the game under one body and the need for an independent review of the game, should be fully supported. Otherwise, those with their snouts in the trough will survive in the short-term, but the game will perish in the long term.

Martin wrote:

I said similar on an other thread. We have over two thousand season ticket holders, more than two thirds of our division have supporters, yet we are in the bottom half of the division, we have VIQI that provides us with almost two hundred thousand of extra cash but we fail to underachieve. We have no debts for the ground just rent and all work is carried out by our landlords yet we continue to struggle along with “kids” making up in some cases the bulk of our team. If central funding is cut it will affect us of course but what I would like to know is; where does the money we produce go NOW.

I think the club said that we were financially secure at the start of the season, which some of us took to mean that we could pay operational costs for the season – player’s wages, insurance coverage, medical bills accrued during the year, rental payment, payments for part time coaching and admin staff, travel costs for away games, and all the other operating costs that businesses have to pay (like Her Majesty’ Customs and Excise Taxation). Some people took it to mean that we could go out and buy players…… The simple fact is that as a small semi-professional club who very nearly went out of existence a couple of years ago we are not an attractive proposition for anybody who is half way decent in either SL and certainly not from Australia. We are not even a tempting proposition for any semi-pros who live a fair distance away (Cumbria or Yorkshire say) as they would struggle to make training if they are permanently employed in a ‘good’ job and with Covid restricting movements for the past 15 months people are even less likely to join. We are a small club who dodged a bullet when the last lot left the club in a mess but that probably wasn’t the last bullet in the gun. Without central funding we are stuffed – at least whilst those RFL persist in ‘running’ the game in such a lopsided manner. As an aside, I’d be absolutely staggered if we have 2k season ticket holders next season, especially if we go back into lockdown again.

I accept all your reasoning RV but look at the table today. Eighth in a league of clubs with the same restrictions as ourselves but they managed to go out and buy players. Not one of these teams has an attendance similar to ours (maybe Bradford) non have a VIQI setup like ours and for instant cash non have as many season ticket holders as we do. The administration business lost its meaning last year and almost two thousand refused their monies back to assist the club. We should not be scratching around for a team and when you see the likes of Batley, Halifax, Newcastle, Featherstone not only above us but taking points off us and in some cases embarrassing us it hurts. Our CEO said there was money in the pot at the beginning of the season for players SL rejected but we signed non AND last week resigned a Youngster that we rejected last season. What will the £42,000 we received from VIQI yesterday go on its not like the old regime there are little wages to be paid.

Sir Lyndsay Hoyle( speaker of the House of Commons) is trying to host an independent review of Rugby League and I what can be done to help it improve. Hopefully they will come up with some ideas that will benefit the whole of RL not just SL

What will the £42,000 we received from VIQI yesterday go on its not like the old regime there are little wages to be paid.

How far realistically will £42,000 go? Although very welcome & necessary to  help us  prosper going forward, & VIQI contributors are to be lauded for their efforts, it is a drop in the ocean in the running of a Championship club that is aiming to recruit players of the calibre to eventually gain promotion to the top level of the sport. To get the best you have to be an attractive proposition plus pay the bigger bucks that we do not have in sufficient supply. This is always going to be a challenge as promising youngsters are always going to be picked up by the SL clubs so we are restricted to Championship players & former SL players & the lesser able youngsters.

The difference between us & say Halifax, & other similar clubs, is considerable in that firstly they are an established championship club probably with more reserves than us built up over the years although they won't be great it makes a difference. Secondly other than local players who want to play for their home town club  & some of those that reside in neighbouring towns we are not attracting other players as a perception of us being skint as we have been in administration. Quality players are more likely to want to sign for a club that has finished near the top of the table the previous year.

Thirdly the biggest difference though appears to be the much larger player pool available in  Yorkshire to championship clubs. The other west of the Pennine clubs, Whitehaven, Oldham & Swinton are having the same problem in acquiring a sufficient number of quality players. Featherstone in recent seasons have had 3 or 4 players on a season loan from Leeds whereas our 3 loanees this year have played a few games & have then been recalled. This also does not help.

Additionally the likes of Halifax & Bradford rightly or wrongly have ceased the airing of OurLeague live streaming of their games which undoubtedly increases their income through the  turnstiles whereas our non season ticket holders can watch the game live on OurLeague for less than a fiver compared to £20 to watch it live.

I would hope 42k would pay for an additional 4-5 players for the rest of the season, if they are available of course

Assuming you are right and 42k pays for (for example) 4 signings what would we go for? I don't know enough about the pay structure to know if this is realistic but for me it would be.

Props x2

Back row forward x1

Utility player who can play hooker or a specialist hooker x 1

The back line is fine for me.

I've got no idea on the pay structure at all, but 42k now half way through the season would be 84k for a full season, in a part time league if that doesn't get you 4-5 players I'd be surprised, or at least cover part of a FT wage for loan players.  Hooker, Prop & an additional centre would be fine for me

42k a drop in the ocean? For a part time semi pro Championship team that's a lot of money to invest in the first team playing squad.  How many other teams can just be handed 42k other than when Leigh played in the Championship and degsy paid out of his own pocket.

As bad as it may seem, the less central funding kind of the better position we are in comparison to many of our rivals. Having VIQI and our larger fan base will make a bigger difference without central funding. However its still very bad for the game as a whole, will your Oldhams, Rochdale and Barrow's survive as semi pro? And as the point Lingard makes, will coaches and players give up the family time and risk to injury for virtually no financial reward?

With no academy, even some SL clubs not having them and no funding for the Championship who develop a large pool of players, the game is in dire straits.

My worry is that the loss of ST holders will see the club fail again, and that would feally be the end.

The Board's Four Year Plan needs to be given air to encourage supporters to identify with it.

The central funding is vital for most Championship clubs. Davy has made his concerns known and the clubs need to support him or they will be overlooked, and it will be deserved.

As far as Widnes is concerned anyone with cash to invest could have bought the club a few months ago and there was no real interest so it is down to the Board and ST holders pretty much. If the ST numbers do deteriorate drastically it will be a major task to rebuild. So how are we, combined, going to climb back up?

Some flesh on the bones of the plan might help us to see the size of the task ahead and just what will be needed to re-establish the club and the team, and just how much it will cost. Some may decide that it's too much for them, but many I hope, will throw their weight behind it. In the long run we both, Board and supporters need to know what we are taking on.

The key to attracting new or at least retaining the current support will be our signings for next year. If the club is serious about wanting to get back into SL in accordance with their 4-year plan, then the squad for next year must reflect that ambition. This means retaining most of our current squad (subject to injuries/retirements) and bringing in an additional 5-6 players to have a squad of 30 plus. The squad should be capable of getting into the play-offs with the potential to winning promotion. We will have to see.

Hasn't the £42k gone on renewing Owens, Craven etc?

Anyway, we'll be in a far better position than Batley (who themselves are in a better position than others).

What this highlights is just how rugby league is underpinned by the central funding; and it shouldn't be. My impression is that Widnes aren't relying on the central funding at all, and that's a good thing. Clubs need to take the worst case scenario (let's say it's £25k central funding) and get on with it. Control what you can control. You can't control the RFL's incompetence.

Do sports that don't get TV money just sit there and moan? No, they look at other revenue streams. Everyone has known for a good three years that this was coming. Yes it would be good to get clarity, but it shouldn't be the be all and end all.

The clubs that will survive are the ones that either own their own ground (ie. Featherstone, Barrow) or have a decent enough fanbase (for now at least) to survive in their current facility (ie. Widnes, Bradford)

For anyone else, it's curtains. Sorry Spelly, but Swinton and Oldham are good examples. They need to get their own grounds and build from the ground up. Even amateur clubs have got more assets than Swinton and Oldham. How Oldham have allowed a tier 10 football team to take their old ground and develop it, instead of doing it themselves and getting up to Championship standard beggars belief.