The RFL were so busy patting themselves on the back for bringing a French team into the British game that they never thought to consider the possibility of them reaching major finals.Remember the bond they wanted from Catalans participating in the challenge cup the other year ? They will be having cold sweats now at the prospect of an all French final in the future.
The RFL were so busy patting themselves on the back for bringing a French team into the British game that they never thought to consider the possibility of them reaching major finals.Remember the bond they wanted from Catalans participating in the challenge cup the other year ? They will be having cold sweats now at the prospect of an all French final in the future.
The final would be re-located to France, where it would probably be a sell-out. There is no long-term vision in the game and we simply stumble from year to year.
How do you relocate at the drop of a hat ? Just cancel the contract with Manchester Utd at 7 days notice and then refund any customers who have already bought tickets and then find another venue available in France.
How do you relocate at the drop of a hat ? Just cancel the contract with Manchester Utd at 7 days notice and then refund any customers who have already bought tickets and then find another venue available in France.
Probably right, but the cost of cancelling may well be outweighed by the increase in gate receipts and it would be embarrassing to have the over-hyped grand final played in front of a few thousand French fans!!!
It’s not rubbish at all, It’s fact. Catalans don’t take many fans to any game outside of France for the obvious reason, which is, your bog standard average French fan probably can’t afford multiple trips to the UK. Catalans were also involved in the worst attended post war Challenge Cup Final too (2018) …Coincidence?
As for their play off attendance this season, It’s pretty obvious to me that Catalans have a very loyal fanbase when it comes to playing on home soil, and maybe the ingrained cynicism of your average M62 corridor fan hasn’t quite filtered through to Perpignan yet.
(1). But you talk as if all other teams take thousands to all games? (2). Which other teams do you think would make a significant increase in that attendance? If half of Super League qualified it would be a very similar attendance (Leigh, Hudds, Wakey, Salford, Cas). I can’t find season averages, but I suspect that they’re all down across the board.
1). They would take more than 52 fans, which is what Catalans take to every away game (1 coach load). 2). The vast majority would, because cynical M62 corridor fans love coming out of the woodwork for a Cup Final. That 1998 Cup Final I mentioned earlier was attended by nearly 40,000 Wigan fans, when have Wigan ever had 40,000 at home??? I’ll tell you… NEVER. Attendances are down in Rugby League, that there is no doubt, but when you see a Super League Grand Final attracting just 45,000, the COVID excuse simply isn’t cutting it…
They might, but lots will also have less fans at home. How many away fans do Leigh take to Hull or vice versa. How many from Huddersfield go to Wire etc.?
This mythical away support that you deem to make attendances week in week out simply isn't true. If other clubs are reliant on every single away following bringing X amount of people that's on them, not Cats/Tou.
Did Wigan bring 40k out of the 64k when they played Wire 3 years ago? The last 2 prior to this year were both 64k. Attendances have been dropping everywhere, and I'd say having 2 of the biggest names playing the most boring (Even if successful) rugby in donkeys years might also have something to do with it. Both Saints and Wigan are very effective, but it's not exactly champagne rugby.
I wonder what will be the cumulative losses in financial terms next season will be with two French teams in Super League? My guess is that it will be substantial. Anyone cleverer than me be able to put a figure on it? A friend of mine suggested “several million pounds”.
The losses would be a lot less substantial if clubs didn't charter their own flights to go, and just went on public flights or the train. It's one thing moaning about money - it's another thing then splashing out £30k to charter a flight to do a trip they could do for a fraction of the cost via public airlines.
Loss in away fans is probably worth around £200k to the whole league as someone has quoted. But then you could argue the increased Sky Sports exposure clubs will get for being on away from home in France is worth something to counter that.
Maybe if clubs stopped moaning about where they're losing money and figure out ways they can make more, then the game would be in a better place.
I make my point simply as a point of reference, but is a valid one none the less.
The wider issue is that the game cannot afford to carry on playing fast and loose with what little money there is in the sport.
Has anybody in charge ever bothered (or even cares) to calculate the overall costs of say, employing far too many expensive overseas players and coaches, the hiring of large stadiums for major finals and a (postponed) World Cup. And, yes, two French teams in SL.
These are just a few glaring examples.
All of this money is cash lost to the sport most of which is not offset by increased attendances or exposure to the masses via the media.
The Authorities need to urgently reverse the trend and start investing its money wisely in the things that really matter, rather than chasing a pipe dream which is destined to end in tears.
On another post I referred to establishing the basic cost of running a FT club.
The wealthy clubs employ staff on much greater numbers than less profligate clubs. That is their choice but their split of central funds could be the basic necessary, bigger staffs should be at the club's cost.
Quite what the basic club would cost to run would be hard to define but surely someone should have a stab at it! Just how much benefit we get from NRL imports is another question. Many are not 'stars' but fading stars getting a few more years, far away from the days of Meninga etc.
“… Just how much benefit we get from NRL imports is another question. Many are not ‘stars’ but fading stars getting a few more years..”
That’s my opinion too sandgroper.
Although there are quite a few real stars amongst them, IMHO the money the game spends on them would serve us all far better if instead it was used to support academies and home-grown talent. Even if all academy players don’t make the grade in the championship or SL, the system grows (and supports) the overall pool of RL players - which currently needs a boost.
It’s not rubbish at all, It’s fact. Catalans don’t take many fans to any game outside of France for the obvious reason, which is, your bog standard average French fan probably can’t afford multiple trips to the UK. Catalans were also involved in the worst attended post war Challenge Cup Final too (2018) …Coincidence?
(1). But you talk as if all other teams take thousands to all games? (2). Which other teams do you think would make a significant increase in that attendance? If half of Super League qualified it would be a very similar attendance (Leigh, Hudds, Wakey, Salford, Cas). I can’t find season averages, but I suspect that they’re all down across the board.
1). They would take more than 52 fans, which is what Catalans take to every away game (1 coach load). 2). The vast majority would, because cynical M62 corridor fans love coming out of the woodwork for a Cup Final. That 1998 Cup Final I mentioned earlier was attended by nearly 40,000 Wigan fans, when have Wigan ever had 40,000 at home??? I’ll tell you… NEVER. Attendances are down in Rugby League, that there is no doubt, but when you see a Super League Grand Final attracting just 45,000, the COVID excuse simply isn’t cutting it…
They might, but lots will also have less fans at home. How many away fans do Leigh take to Hull or vice versa. How many from Huddersfield go to Wire etc.? This mythical away support that you deem to make attendances week in week out simply isn’t true. If other clubs are reliant on every single away following bringing X amount of people that’s on them, not Cats/Tou. Did Wigan bring 40k out of the 64k when they played Wire 3 years ago? The last 2 prior to this year were both 64k. Attendances have been dropping everywhere, and I’d say having 2 of the biggest names playing the most boring (Even if successful) rugby in donkeys years might also have something to do with it. Both Saints and Wigan are very effective, but it’s not exactly champagne rugby.
Of course it's true.
The 2 clubs you mentioned (Leigh & Huddersfield) have a raft of local derbies on their doorsteps.
Catalans fans (and Toulouse fans from next year) have a minimum of 12 trips to the UK to look forward to.
British clubs have a minimum of just 2 trips to France.
Basic common sense tells you that both Catalans and Toulouse won't bring many fans ...it also tells you that M62 corridor clubs will take considerably more to other M62 corridor clubs over a season than either Catalans or Toulouse.
If you're still confused... here's a little sum to help you understand.
52 Catalans fans per game x 12 games (minimum) = 624 Catalans fans per season.
Leigh took more than that to Wigan alone this season...
As for recent pre-covid Wembley attendances, there's quite a few Rugby fans who don't actually like the new Wembley.
My in-laws went watching Wigan in the 2011 Final, and have vowed never to return, as they found the seating was too steep.
I don't know what the lower tier is like, but I've been in the upper tier 5 times, and it is bloody steep.
I wonder what will be the cumulative losses in financial terms next season will be with two French teams in Super League? My guess is that it will be substantial. Anyone cleverer than me be able to put a figure on it? A friend of mine suggested “several million pounds”.
The losses would be a lot less substantial if clubs didn’t charter their own flights to go, and just went on public flights or the train. It’s one thing moaning about money – it’s another thing then splashing out £30k to charter a flight to do a trip they could do for a fraction of the cost via public airlines. Loss in away fans is probably worth around £200k to the whole league as someone has quoted. But then you could argue the increased Sky Sports exposure clubs will get for being on away from home in France is worth something to counter that. Maybe if clubs stopped moaning about where they’re losing money and figure out ways they can make more, then the game would be in a better place.
Teams like to fly there and back in the same day, so it causes minimal disruption to preparation for their next game.
Public flights can be cancelled at very short notice, which would then mean the club would have to fork out for accommodation, which in turn, would cause disruption.
Toulouse will be another chartered flight job as there are only 3 flights per week from Manchester.
I make my point simply as a point of reference, but is a valid one none the less. The wider issue is that the game cannot afford to carry on playing fast and loose with what little money there is in the sport. Has anybody in charge ever bothered (or even cares) to calculate the overall costs of say, employing far too many expensive overseas players and coaches, the hiring of large stadiums for major finals and a (postponed) World Cup. And, yes, two French teams in SL. These are just a few glaring examples. All of this money is cash lost to the sport most of which is not offset by increased attendances or exposure to the masses via the media. The Authorities need to urgently reverse the trend and start investing its money wisely in the things that really matter, rather than chasing a pipe dream which is destined to end in tears.
Not to mention the amount spent at the RFL. The wages and pension contributions of the top few at the table would be enough to make peoples eyes water, in a sport where money is tight. Especially when said people aren't doing a good job of growing the sport or making good commercial deals. Those people there are as bad as/worse than Rule.
Of course it’s true. The 2 clubs you mentioned (Leigh & Huddersfield) have a raft of local derbies on their doorsteps. Catalans fans (and Toulouse fans from next year) have a minimum of 12 trips to the UK to look forward to. British clubs have a minimum of just 2 trips to France. Basic common sense tells you that both Catalans and Toulouse won’t bring many fans …it also tells you that M62 corridor clubs will take considerably more to other M62 corridor clubs over a season than either Catalans or Toulouse. If you’re still confused… here’s a little sum to help you understand. 52 Catalans fans per game x 12 games (minimum) = 624 Catalans fans per season. Leigh took more than that to Wigan alone this season… As for recent pre-covid Wembley attendances, there’s quite a few Rugby fans who don’t actually like the new Wembley. My in-laws went watching Wigan in the 2011 Final, and have vowed never to return, as they found the seating was too steep. I don’t know what the lower tier is like, but I’ve been in the upper tier 5 times, and it is bloody steep.
It's not that many games in a season. If clubs are struggling because their attendance dips by (and lets be generous here) say 10% for 2 or 3 games a season, because a travelling support brings 50 not 500, so a crowd goes from 5000 (4,500 +500 away), to 4550 (4,500 +50 away) then that club has massive issues & those reasons aren't 2 French clubs.
Those were the attendances at Old Trafford, in the heartlands, where all these fans of clubs will flock to...
If they wanted to make up lost money (£200k been bandied about) then they really could lose 1 self elected & untouchable RFL board member and things would be back to normal.
The other thing would be for clubs to stop paying journeymen Ozzies 6 figures a year...
The losses would be a lot less substantial if clubs didn’t charter their own flights to go, and just went on public flights or the train. It’s one thing moaning about money – it’s another thing then splashing out £30k to charter a flight. Maybe if clubs stopped moaning about where they’re losing money and figure out ways they can make more, then the game would be in a better place.
Take public transport to the South of France? Come on James, we are supposed to be a professional sport and these players are supposed to be the elite.My suggestion to save money would be to dispense with the raft of hangers on in non playing roles.Your CEOs, marketing managers,backs coach, forwards coach, head of performance , head of ‘analysis’ etc. I’ll never take seriously again any complaints from Wigan about shortage of money in the game.
The losses would be a lot less substantial if clubs didn’t charter their own flights to go, and just went on public flights or the train. It’s one thing moaning about money – it’s another thing then splashing out £30k to charter a flight. Maybe if clubs stopped moaning about where they’re losing money and figure out ways they can make more, then the game would be in a better place.
Take public transport to the South of France? Come on James, we are supposed to be a professional sport and these players are supposed to be the elite.My suggestion to save money would be to dispense with the raft of hangers on in non playing roles.Your CEOs, marketing managers,backs coach, forwards coach, head of performance , head of ‘analysis’ etc. I’ll never take seriously again any complaints from Wigan about shortage of money in the game. https://www.wiganwarriors.com/teams/coaching-staff/a >
This!! So many people on Twitter are constantly believing the game should expand and become an elite business like the premier league, these are the same people who believe they can source a career out of the game within the administration.
Why does a club require 3 social media experts, commercial directors etc or community officers.