Why have the crowds been so poor in these play-offs? I did assume that people were still Covid risk averse but that isn’t being borne out when you look at other sports. I watched some Prem RU at the weekend and they were sell outs, the Prem Football always is. To see Wigan at home in the play-offs playing in front of such a sparse crowd, same for the semis, disappointing crowd for the final, is Covid masking the issue (sorry)?
Play off crowds have been poor for years (the same as Challenge Cup games), and I think the reason is probably the same, RL fans don't like forking out money if they don't have to.
As for Wigan... Well, its common knowledge their fans are a very fickle bunch, and have been for decades, so no need to worry, as soon as they win a Trophy again, their superfans will be all crawling out of the woodwork again.
As for the Grand Final... I expected a poor attendance on Saturday simply due to the fact that Catalans were playing.
The pitfalls of having a European Super League, eh?
Full time money consolidating the advantage Saints, Leeds and Wigan have as the biggest clubs with the best crowds anyway. Also, let’s not forget that the Champions are the Grand Final winners now (since 98) as opposed to who tops the League. If you think about it, Huddersfield, Cas, Catalans and heaven help us Wire have all been top and would have won the league under the old system. Equally, the Premiership which you could use a rough equivalent of the SL Play-Offs: we won 6 times as did Wigan, so you could argue us and Wigan dominated that.
That is why I used league as example as the league winners prior to 96 were effectively the champions rather than premiership winners, so winning the league back in the 80s had the same importance as today’s grand final.
But ultimately, in the current system, a team can win every single game of the season – and then lose to Wigan/Saints/Leeds in the Grand Final. Of course, if the Grand Final was scrapped, I doubt we would have seen exactly the same teams have finish 1st, finish 1st – but it’s certainly a lot more of a challenge to do that. Wigan/Saints/Leeds (albeit the Rhinos had a couple of seasons to the exception) almost get to the play-offs by default each year, and they know they only need to win 2/3 games in that series and they are the champions. Based on the crowd at Old Trafford, I don’t know why we don’t just go back to the old Championship/Premiership format.
The current system isn't new.
That was how Rugby League operated prior to 1974.
The only differences was, the game back then was just 1 division, and the play off system was a Top 16 knock out.
It was abolished in favour of the first past the post system after Dewsbury won the 1972/73 Play off Final after finishing 8th in the regular season.
A '2 X 10' system might work if funding was set to finance a FT or even FT/PT hybrid in SL2, including a basic academy. At present the major drive to get into SL is easy money rather than competition for the game's sake.
Of course SL 1 would be slightly better funded but not enough to require parachute payments. The major inevitable difference between teams would be their gate receipts and other sponsorship/sugar daddy proceeds.
All teams should be required to run an academy to prevent clubs shelving the academy and ploughing all finance into winning the division.
The competition would then focus on winning the league title, in whichever division. The Grand Final would be the SL 1 aim as the top title.
An annual one down, one up between SL 1 & 2 could be straightforward as funding differences would be relatively minor.
Promotion would mean that you had the chance of competing for the Grand Final.
Full time money consolidating the advantage Saints, Leeds and Wigan have as the biggest clubs with the best crowds anyway. Also, let’s not forget that the Champions are the Grand Final winners now (since 98) as opposed to who tops the League. If you think about it, Huddersfield, Cas, Catalans and heaven help us Wire have all been top and would have won the league under the old system. Equally, the Premiership which you could use a rough equivalent of the SL Play-Offs: we won 6 times as did Wigan, so you could argue us and Wigan dominated that.
That is why I used league as example as the league winners prior to 96 were effectively the champions rather than premiership winners, so winning the league back in the 80s had the same importance as today’s grand final.
But ultimately, in the current system, a team can win every single game of the season – and then lose to Wigan/Saints/Leeds in the Grand Final. Of course, if the Grand Final was scrapped, I doubt we would have seen exactly the same teams have finish 1st, finish 1st – but it’s certainly a lot more of a challenge to do that. Wigan/Saints/Leeds (albeit the Rhinos had a couple of seasons to the exception) almost get to the play-offs by default each year, and they know they only need to win 2/3 games in that series and they are the champions. Based on the crowd at Old Trafford, I don’t know why we don’t just go back to the old Championship/Premiership format.
The current system isn’t new. That was how Rugby League operated prior to 1974. The only differences was, the game back then was just 1 division, and the play off system was a Top 16 knock out. It was abolished in favour of the first past the post system after Dewsbury won the 1972/73 Play off Final after finishing 8th in the regular season.
The reasoning behind that was because there was only one division you did not play each other home and away for every fixture, consequently the league table was not accurate due to the fixtures you actually played, you could have effectively played all your nearest rivals just once and at home etc etc
With two divisions a full and fair fixture list could be played against all teams in the division both home and away, consequently the champions were the team that finished top after a complete fixture list had been played
Ironically the last two seasons are the only ones since the divisions were introduced were the playoff has probably been required to decide the "champions"
Why have the crowds been so poor in these play-offs? I did assume that people were still Covid risk averse but that isn’t being borne out when you look at other sports. I watched some Prem RU at the weekend and they were sell outs, the Prem Football always is. To see Wigan at home in the play-offs playing in front of such a sparse crowd, same for the semis, disappointing crowd for the final, is Covid masking the issue (sorry)?
Play off crowds have been poor for years (the same as Challenge Cup games), and I think the reason is probably the same, RL fans don’t like forking out money if they don’t have to. As for Wigan… Well, its common knowledge their fans are a very fickle bunch, and have been for decades, so no need to worry, as soon as they win a Trophy again, their superfans will be all crawling out of the woodwork again. As for the Grand Final… I expected a poor attendance on Saturday simply due to the fact that Catalans were playing. The pitfalls of having a European Super League, eh?
This is pretty much rubbish. How many fans do each team that are participating in the final take? It's not like it is 10's and 10's of thousands with the odd neutral. Think the attendance was 45k.
Yes, there would be a handful of thousand less as it was Catalans due to the distant maybe, Covid issues etc. but it's hardly like there would be an extra 30k on the gate if Leeds, Wigan or any of the other clubs were there instead of Catalans.
Wasn't the only full house in the playoffs (Or even close to it) the Catalans semi final? What were the attendances during the season like across SL? As far as I'm aware it's hardly booming with interest!
There are many reasons the GF attendance wasn't anywhere near what it has been.
Quality of the matches this season, austerity, lack of interest, ticket prices to price out a good chunk of their market, no benefits to local clubs any more (Sure in the past a certain % has gone back to the club who sold the ticket). Also general disenchantment with the game & probably many more.
To try and blame it on Catalans, who seemingly have done more to engage and encourage local fans to get involved with the sport than most clubs is truly baffling. Agreeing whether they should or shouldn't be a part of the league is a different issue, but to blame attendance on them IMO is madness.
Why have the crowds been so poor in these play-offs? I did assume that people were still Covid risk averse but that isn’t being borne out when you look at other sports. I watched some Prem RU at the weekend and they were sell outs, the Prem Football always is. To see Wigan at home in the play-offs playing in front of such a sparse crowd, same for the semis, disappointing crowd for the final, is Covid masking the issue (sorry)?
Play off crowds have been poor for years (the same as Challenge Cup games), and I think the reason is probably the same, RL fans don’t like forking out money if they don’t have to. As for Wigan… Well, its common knowledge their fans are a very fickle bunch, and have been for decades, so no need to worry, as soon as they win a Trophy again, their superfans will be all crawling out of the woodwork again. As for the Grand Final… I expected a poor attendance on Saturday simply due to the fact that Catalans were playing. The pitfalls of having a European Super League, eh?
This is pretty much rubbish. How many fans do each team that are participating in the final take? It’s not like it is 10’s and 10’s of thousands with the odd neutral. Think the attendance was 45k. Yes, there would be a handful of thousand less as it was Catalans due to the distant maybe, Covid issues etc. but it’s hardly like there would be an extra 30k on the gate if Leeds, Wigan or any of the other clubs were there instead of Catalans. Wasn’t the only full house in the playoffs (Or even close to it) the Catalans semi final? What were the attendances during the season like across SL? As far as I’m aware it’s hardly booming with interest! There are many reasons the GF attendance wasn’t anywhere near what it has been. Quality of the matches this season, austerity, lack of interest, ticket prices to price out a good chunk of their market, no benefits to local clubs any more (Sure in the past a certain % has gone back to the club who sold the ticket). Also general disenchantment with the game & probably many more. To try and blame it on Catalans, who seemingly have done more to engage and encourage local fans to get involved with the sport than most clubs is truly baffling. Agreeing whether they should or shouldn’t be a part of the league is a different issue, but to blame attendance on them IMO is madness.
It's not rubbish at all, It's fact.
Catalans don't take many fans to any game outside of France for the obvious reason, which is, your bog standard average French fan probably can't afford multiple trips to the UK.
Catalans were also involved in the worst attended post war Challenge Cup Final too (2018) ...Coincidence? 🤔
As for their play off attendance this season, It's pretty obvious to me that Catalans have a very loyal fanbase when it comes to playing on home soil, and maybe the ingrained cynicism of your average M62 corridor fan hasn't quite filtered through to Perpignan yet.
It's also worth noting that the last poorly supported club at a Challenge Cup Final was Sheffield Eagles back in 1998.
They took barely 2,000 to Wembley that day.
The overall attendance was 60,669 - The 3rd worst post war Challenge Cup Final Attendance, behind the 1946 and 2018 Finals.
It’s not rubbish at all, It’s fact. Catalans don’t take many fans to any game outside of France for the obvious reason, which is, your bog standard average French fan probably can’t afford multiple trips to the UK. Catalans were also involved in the worst attended post war Challenge Cup Final too (2018) …Coincidence?
As for their play off attendance this season, It’s pretty obvious to me that Catalans have a very loyal fanbase when it comes to playing on home soil, and maybe the ingrained cynicism of your average M62 corridor fan hasn’t quite filtered through to Perpignan yet.
But you talk as if all other teams take thousands to all games? Which other teams do you think would make a significant increase in that attendance? If half of Super League qualified it would be a very similar attendance (Leigh, Hudds, Wakey, Salford, Cas).
I can't find season averages, but I suspect that they're all down across the board.
It’s not rubbish at all, It’s fact. Catalans don’t take many fans to any game outside of France for the obvious reason, which is, your bog standard average French fan probably can’t afford multiple trips to the UK. Catalans were also involved in the worst attended post war Challenge Cup Final too (2018) …Coincidence?
(1). But you talk as if all other teams take thousands to all games? (2). Which other teams do you think would make a significant increase in that attendance? If half of Super League qualified it would be a very similar attendance (Leigh, Hudds, Wakey, Salford, Cas). I can’t find season averages, but I suspect that they’re all down across the board.
1). They would take more than 52 fans, which is what Catalans take to every away game (1 coach load).
2). The vast majority would, because cynical M62 corridor fans love coming out of the woodwork for a Cup Final.
That 1998 Cup Final I mentioned earlier was attended by nearly 40,000 Wigan fans, when have Wigan ever had 40,000 at home??? I'll tell you... NEVER.
Attendances are down in Rugby League, that there is no doubt, but when you see a Super League Grand Final attracting just 45,000, the COVID excuse simply isn't cutting it...
Catalans crowds might take a hit next season, as most Super League fans have never been to Toulouse.
Can't see many doing both, especially given the current climate.
But this was always on the cards when SLE manipulated Cats into SL. Fans don't even cross the Pennines as they used to, let alone the channel! Most of us could see the practical difficulties but the hierarchy just shut their eyes and took the money.
There is tv coverage, or highlights, of most games these days and that will suffice for some. The couch bound supporter is happy, Sky are happy, Premier Sports will be happy, Rimmer gets paid - all's well with the world!
I wonder what will be the cumulative losses in financial terms next season will be with two French teams in Super League?
My guess is that it will be substantial.
Anyone cleverer than me be able to put a figure on it?
A friend of mine suggested "several million pounds".
Even a small away support at £20+ will be felt when its two home games out of the picture. Good job Toronto etc fell away!
I wonder what will be the cumulative losses in financial terms next season will be with two French teams in Super League? My guess is that it will be substantial. Anyone cleverer than me be able to put a figure on it? A friend of mine suggested “several million pounds”.
I doubt that, Leigh are no more of a big attraction than Toulouse so i cant see many "home" supporters coming out just to see them when they are playing at Hull or Huddersfield etc and how many fans on average do they take away, i would guess it would average at at no more than a 1000 per game over a season, at say £20 per person thats £20,000 per game so £220,000 or thereabouts over a season
so Wigan ,Saints and Warrington dont get additional gate money from travelling Leigh fans....fudge them, they dont give a crunchie about other clubs when they are splitting TV money
Offset that with the realistic chance that both Toulouse and cats will get big gates for a derby game and for once cash is actually going to other clubs outside the greedy "big four"
I guess the teams that are likely to be relegated from SL next year are the ones who are complaining about Toulouse, who look to have a team capable of competing in SL next year.
I wonder what will happen when Toulouse and Catalan get a tv deal with the French Elite league? Will Wigan and co apply to join that league?
I am actually thinking that 2022 will be the beginning of the end for RL - although it has been in decline for years - with 16 clubs abandoned, possibly including Widnes and the con of two SL leagues. Does anyone really believe that this move is not simply to ensure that most of the Sky funding is centred on the 10 clubs in SL1, with SL2 clubs just making up the numbers?
We should enjoy 2022. It could be the last for rugby league in Widnes!!! You could always go up the road to watch Wire or Saints I suppose.