To be fair the likes of Harry Greenwood, Ron Close and John Stringer who were involved in the running of the club 70s/80s were not really 'rugby people' as such but they managed to steer the ship OK.
A number of people on the board are business owners I believe, so in that regard you would think that they would know what they are doing and also have enough about them to oversee the activities of the CEO and hold him accountable. It seems like although we have a lack of spending power, the finances are ok.
The wider issues are that two different coaches (Purtill got a new contract about 2 months before he went), presumably recommended by PF, haven't worked out. The third, the jury is still out on. The academy has gone out of necessity and the PT transition has not worked out too well so far. All of this, not to mention Covid. So basically we haven't had much positivity in the last 2 or so years which leads to lapsed support and disappointment/questions being asked. And they should be asked in fairness.
We really need a good, positive, off season and to hit the ground running come February.
The other point to mention is PF took on the job in bad circumstances. Wigan, Saints and Wire were all doing absolutely fine when the aforementioned CEOs got the job. It is a hell of a task for a rookie at Widnes IMO.
On people losing interest some fans always drift away specially if a team does not win most home matches. I have a season ticket but have not been to a game this year & probably will not attend any of the remaining ones. I also donate to VIQI & will continue to. I will be buying a season ticket for next year too. Just because I am not there does not mean I have walked away or disillusioned. My entire reason for not attending is COVID nothing else. I am sure I am not the only one. Sure I am a long standing supporter but most of the pay at the turnstile supporters will return if the team start winning more games.
What we actually need is someone running the club who understands how business works. Whoever it is needs to be supported, but not necessarily be directed by, someone who understands Rugby League. The fans see it as a game but within the club it has to be a business.
Could not disagree more in fact IMO it is the complete opposite no RL club is a business as making a profit is a non starter, the only way to survive is to have someone on board who knows how to run a RL club and get value for money on every thing RL related.
We have a history of ‘rugby people’ being the people running the club since I started watching the club at the beginning of the 1960’s – how’s that working out for us Mick. All I see is the club slowly going down the gurgler – as proved by the majority of the people on this board over the past five years doing little short of constantly complaining. The club needs to be run by somebody who has success in running one or more small to medium regional based businesses to generate revenue by providing things that people will pay for. Obviously one of the key people he would rely on would be someone who understands the game as the game and club is what the CEO would be looking to market. Perhaps the fact that some people can’t see the need for a business based manager for what is a small regional professional business is one of the reasons the club has stopped publishing the attendance (because numbers are dropping alarmingly).
Saints CEO – Mike Rush ex Head of Academy Wigan CEO – Kris Radlinski ex Player Wire CEO – Karl Fitzpatrick ex player Salford CEO – Ian Blease ex Player Leeds CEO – for many years Gary Hethrington ex Player, then Kevin Sinfield ex Player The model in the game in the UK is to have Rugby people heading it up. How did bringing in the business acumen of James Rule work out. What all the above clubs excepting Salford have in common is business owners with a lot of money behind them. Saints – McManus & Coleman Wigan – Lenaghan Wire – Moran & Middleton Leeds – Caddick Salford are in trouble and all the others would be without their owners.
how many of them went from academy coach direct to CEO, none of the above.
Why the constant criticism of Phil Finney? He took on the role of Chief Executive at what was probably the lowest point in the club's history and faced a massive challenge to even keep the club afloat, with massive debts, funding withdrawn, financial constraints and a 12 points deduction. He was Performance Director at the club and had extensive rugby league experience with Widnes; and was known and respected within the club. Who better to appoint? He has seen the club through the aftermath of Administration and the financial turmoil and uncertainty brought on by covid and has spoken of his vision to get Widnes back in SL.
This year has been a huge disappointment with some of the performances, but many fans were wise enough (not me!) to accept that a play-off spot was not certain or indeed realistic. Maybe we will be in a better position to judge both Finney and Finnegan when they reveal their plans for 2022. You never know, we may be surprised and the constant moaners will have to find a new bête noire to savage on line next year.
Going back to the Batley game, I agree it was a poor performance again, particularly in the second half, and we should be be looking to get back on track against York, but I think it will be another defeat.
Why the constant criticism of Phil Finney? He took on the role of Chief Executive at what was probably the lowest point in the club’s history and faced a massive challenge to even keep the club afloat, with massive debts, funding withdrawn, financial constraints and a 12 points deduction. He was Performance Director at the club and had extensive rugby league experience with Widnes; and was known and respected within the club. Who better to appoint? He has seen the club through the aftermath of Administration and the financial turmoil and uncertainty brought on by covid and has spoken of his vision to get Widnes back in SL. This year has been a huge disappointment with some of the performances, but many fans were wise enough (not me!) to accept that a play-off spot was not certain or indeed realistic. Maybe we will be in a better position to judge both Finney and Finnegan when they reveal their plans for 2022. You never know, we may be surprised and the constant moaners will have to find a new bête noire to savage on line next year. Going back to the Batley game, I agree it was a poor performance again, particularly in the second half, and we should be be looking to get back on track against York, but I think it will be another defeat.
Frank I pay my money and say what I see as am am well entitled to. Is the CEO a silent position ? as he is the man in charge yet we here fudge all from him. It is quite logical to believe that he accepts the dross we pay to see week in week out. People like your good self say the same thing year after year "lets see what what happens next year blah blah blah" The players, coach and CEO are paid employees and I for one contribute in numerous ways to them and I want to see some effort for my donations not just by the players but the coach and CEO. Could not give two fucks if we gat beat every week as i support my team but I do expect effort from all involved which nobody is showing. We cannot even get a simple explanation from the coach about leaving a prop on the bench for 75 mins when our forwards where out on their feet, and yes I have asked but no answer from the transparent club.
Mick George wrote:
Frank I pay my money and say what I see as am am well entitled to. Is the CEO a silent position ? as he is the man in charge yet we here fudge all from him. It is quite logical to believe that he accepts the dross we pay to see week in week out. People like your good self say the same thing year after year “lets see what what happens next year blah blah blah” The players, coach and CEO are paid employees and I for one contribute in numerous ways to them and I want to see some effort for my donations not just by the players but the coach and CEO. Could not give two fudges if we gat beat every week as i support my team but I do expect effort from all involved which nobody is showing. We cannot even get a simple explanation from the coach about leaving a prop on the bench for 75 mins when our forwards where out on their feet, and yes I have asked but no answer from the transparent club.
I totally agree that every fan is entitled to an opinion, but sometimes when the same thing is repeated ad nauseam, it becomes to sound personal and vindictive.
You have an opportunity on Monday to raise answers to your questions and I expect that there will be more opportunities in the future to raise your concerns as a fan. I suspect that like most games this year, we have put players on the bench who are probably carrying knocks due to injuries and the small squad, but I agree that there is no excuse for the coach not to appear after a game to try and explain a poor performance.
We have had three short-term appointments as coach since Betts was sacked. I think we need some stability that hopefully Finnegan can bring. Of course, there have been serious questions raised about some of our performances, but they have shown glimpses pre-Batley that there was a decent team emerging. Like I said, we should perhaps judge Finney and Finnegan on their plans and the team performances in 2022.
Frank i am not going to keep putting quotes up but another point just in case you missed it was SF stated on video 2 days before the game that we had no injuries bar the long termers, that leaves too options. The coach was telling porkies or he Franny in disguise her endeth my case.
Come on SF isn't as bad as Franny....
Else back in the squad for this week, so I would be starting him with Roden on the bench I guess.
3 props Clough, Farnworth and Tilleke. Start one of them please!!! And give Will more than a run on at the end.
Lawton needs to be better used as well, Mick Nanyn style.
Perhaps a decent coach may not want to mention to the opposition that a player is carrying a knock, or he just didn't fancy putting Tilleke on at the time for whatever reason Ask him on Monday and let me know.
What we actually need is someone running the club who understands how business works. Whoever it is needs to be supported, but not necessarily be directed by, someone who understands Rugby League. The fans see it as a game but within the club it has to be a business.
Could not disagree more in fact IMO it is the complete opposite no RL club is a business as making a profit is a non starter, the only way to survive is to have someone on board who knows how to run a RL club and get value for money on every thing RL related.
We have a history of ‘rugby people’ being the people running the club since I started watching the club at the beginning of the 1960’s – how’s that working out for us Mick. All I see is the club slowly going down the gurgler – as proved by the majority of the people on this board over the past five years doing little short of constantly complaining. The club needs to be run by somebody who has success in running one or more small to medium regional based businesses to generate revenue by providing things that people will pay for. Obviously one of the key people he would rely on would be someone who understands the game as the game and club is what the CEO would be looking to market. Perhaps the fact that some people can’t see the need for a business based manager for what is a small regional professional business is one of the reasons the club has stopped publishing the attendance (because numbers are dropping alarmingly).
Saints CEO – Mike Rush ex Head of Academy Wigan CEO – Kris Radlinski ex Player Wire CEO – Karl Fitzpatrick ex player Salford CEO – Ian Blease ex Player Leeds CEO – for many years Gary Hethrington ex Player, then Kevin Sinfield ex Player The model in the game in the UK is to have Rugby people heading it up. How did bringing in the business acumen of James Rule work out. What all the above clubs excepting Salford have in common is business owners with a lot of money behind them. Saints – McManus & Coleman Wigan – Lenaghan Wire – Moran & Middleton Leeds – Caddick Salford are in trouble and all the others would be without their owners.
how many of them went from academy coach direct to CEO, none of the above.
As far as I know only one of the above was Head of Performance / Academy - Mike Rush and he was promoted to CEO. This is exactly the same as Phil Finney. The others took different routes from players to CEO.
What we actually need is someone running the club who understands how business works. Whoever it is needs to be supported, but not necessarily be directed by, someone who understands Rugby League. The fans see it as a game but within the club it has to be a business.
Could not disagree more in fact IMO it is the complete opposite no RL club is a business as making a profit is a non starter, the only way to survive is to have someone on board who knows how to run a RL club and get value for money on every thing RL related.
We have a history of ‘rugby people’ being the people running the club since I started watching the club at the beginning of the 1960’s – how’s that working out for us Mick. All I see is the club slowly going down the gurgler – as proved by the majority of the people on this board over the past five years doing little short of constantly complaining. The club needs to be run by somebody who has success in running one or more small to medium regional based businesses to generate revenue by providing things that people will pay for. Obviously one of the key people he would rely on would be someone who understands the game as the game and club is what the CEO would be looking to market. Perhaps the fact that some people can’t see the need for a business based manager for what is a small regional professional business is one of the reasons the club has stopped publishing the attendance (because numbers are dropping alarmingly).
Saints CEO – Mike Rush ex Head of Academy Wigan CEO – Kris Radlinski ex Player Wire CEO – Karl Fitzpatrick ex player Salford CEO – Ian Blease ex Player Leeds CEO – for many years Gary Hethrington ex Player, then Kevin Sinfield ex Player The model in the game in the UK is to have Rugby people heading it up. How did bringing in the business acumen of James Rule work out. What all the above clubs excepting Salford have in common is business owners with a lot of money behind them. Saints – McManus & Coleman Wigan – Lenaghan Wire – Moran & Middleton Leeds – Caddick Salford are in trouble and all the others would be without their owners.
how many of them went from academy coach direct to CEO, none of the above.
As far as I know only one of the above was Head of Performance / Academy – Mike Rush and he was promoted to CEO. This is exactly the same as Phil Finney. The others took different routes from players to CEO.
About Mike RushMike Rush has spent the past 18 years with St Helens Rugby League Club, having held a range of senior management positions at the club before becoming CEO.
With experience at all levels of the club, including within the Academy and Performance departments, Mike’s previous roles include Head of Development, High Performance Manager, Head Coach and General Manager.
Mike has a long history in sport having qualified as a PE teacher with a PGCE from Edge Hill University in 1998 following a BSc in Sport and Geography.
He continues to live locally in St Helens and currently sits on the boards of governors of both Cowley International College and Edge Hill University.
Top analysis here, Tony. But maybe it's worth adding that Widnes didn't play the week before because the London match was cancelled. It's surprising how much one missed hard match run out matters in terms of fitness but it does. We flagged against Batley only in the last half hour. Admittedly we do indeed have a conditioning problem but hey, York, didn't play last week so maybe we shall be the beneficiaries tomorrow.
Its quite rare for us to score any points in the 2nd half this season.
Why the constant criticism of Phil Finney? He took on the role of Chief Executive at what was probably the lowest point in the club’s history and faced a massive challenge to even keep the club afloat, with massive debts, funding withdrawn, financial constraints and a 12 points deduction. He was Performance Director at the club and had extensive rugby league experience with Widnes; and was known and respected within the club. Who better to appoint? He has seen the club through the aftermath of Administration and the financial turmoil and uncertainty brought on by covid and has spoken of his vision to get Widnes back in SL. This year has been a huge disappointment with some of the performances, but many fans were wise enough (not me!) to accept that a play-off spot was not certain or indeed realistic. Maybe we will be in a better position to judge both Finney and Finnegan when they reveal their plans for 2022. You never know, we may be surprised and the constant moaners will have to find a new bête noire to savage on line next year. Going back to the Batley game, I agree it was a poor performance again, particularly in the second half, and we should be be looking to get back on track against York, but I think it will be another defeat.
Frank I pay my money and say what I see as am am well entitled to. Is the CEO a silent position ? as he is the man in charge yet we here fudge all from him. It is quite logical to believe that he accepts the dross we pay to see week in week out. People like your good self say the same thing year after year “lets see what what happens next year blah blah blah” The players, coach and CEO are paid employees and I for one contribute in numerous ways to them and I want to see some effort for my donations not just by the players but the coach and CEO. Could not give two fudges if we gat beat every week as i support my team but I do expect effort from all involved which nobody is showing. We cannot even get a simple explanation from the coach about leaving a prop on the bench for 75 mins when our forwards where out on their feet, and yes I have asked but no answer from the transparent club.
Since when has putting your money in as a fan given you the right to ask about specific coaching decisions?
You seem to have a personal agenda against Finney. He didn't jump from academy coach to CEO either, he's had similar promotions to some of the people listed by RB. He's hired as CEO by the board of directors, who own the club.