This does not fill me with inspiration at all. That is 2 injury prone second rowers re- signed & this one for 2 years.
We are desperate for at least one more excellent prop, preferably 2 a line breaking fast centre & a fast winger. Please!
I think that is a good retention - he was unlucky this season with injuries but when he was on the pitch improved the team, far better lf than gregson
yes we still need at least one more prop and probably a centre
I don't understand how we go about these things we seem to sign who is available rather than what we need !?!
hall is decent if fit but gregson ,jj, mcwhirter also play loose forward so surely it makes more sense to not sign hall and sign a prop where we are short of numbers
baffled
Hall is a good retention imo
he definitely improved the team when he came on off the bench with bibby
If him and Langtree stay fit then our pack will be better for it
we have to realize we need to sign players who want to play for widnes and without a money backer we are not going to sign players who are looking for full time contracts
@mckviking on that basis you could end up with 9 wingers or 15 full backs !! You should only sign players you need so if they wanted hall don't sign gregson but too sign both eats into what money we have for positions that need filling urgently a fourth loose forward isn't a best use of our finances and a two year contract for another player(langtree as well) that you can't be confident of completing a season!! I hope we stay injury free but we can't use crisis next year when you sign players who get injured
Where do you get players with a 'never injured' guarantee?
@sandgroper yes but some eg langtree has had his last 2 seasons disrupted and at 34/5 that's not going to improve is it?
I don't understand how we go about these things we seem to sign who is available rather than what we need !?!
hall is decent if fit but gregson ,jj, mcwhirter also play loose forward so surely it makes more sense to not sign hall and sign a prop where we are short of numbers
baffled
Gregson baffles me he is a league 1 player at best. I do rate Hall but fingers crossed stays fit. Probably be cheap on a 2 year contract and if fit definitely brings some grunt to the pack.
A question I have raised before is do we have anyone looking at signings from a strategic perspective. With a documented smaller squad and lower budget than the top 4/5 clubs in the Championship this is even more important.
We have 4 players that can play 13 - Mcquirter, Gregson, Hall and Johnson. Yet at prop where you need 4 players in the match day squad we only have 2 in the entire squad, Murray and Chapelhow. We have made the mistake of playing players out of position before, Bent is not effective in the front row, Lawton's skill set is more suited to wider out in the 2nd row and Mcquirter has the build of a 13.
The Championship is slower but more physical than SL, you need big bodies in the middle to punch holes in the oposition and make yards. If you are constantly tackling someone 1-2 stone heavier than you, the extra effort needed to stop them will eventually tire you out.
Our strategy seems to be if they are a good player and a nice lad to sign them. But you can then end up with 3 loose forwards for 1 position and 2 props for 4 positions. I think you need someone not involved in the day to day training to look at it from a more strategic viewpoint. If someone is a really good guy and you are with them day in day out at training it must be difficult to not keep them on.
Other examples would be signing Patton, good player but having him and Gilmore meant we had 2 organisers and kickers, your typical on field general, but no running threat. All the top teams have one of each. Asking Bent to play prop, always gives 100% effort for the cause but just doesn't have the build for the position to make any yards. Giving Langtree a 2 year deal, another top player in the Championship but had 2 different major injuries in 2 seasons and will be 35 come the start of the season.
Are these lads good players at Championship level, answer is yes. But stepping back, do they maximise what you can get out of a small squad with a limited budget. Would a 6 with less of a pedigree than Patton, but with a running game to complement Gilmore have improved the way the team functioned?
That's my take on it, not to be negative but to be constructive, a longer term, more strategic approach would benefit the club in my opinion. Also for events and targeted fixtures during the season, build them up for a few months before.
I appreciate it also must be hard to sign everyone you want if the likes of Oldham are offering more money. Squad balance on a budget is key for me as dual reg is not reliable and damages the brand to an extent with players in and out each week so not good for the fans following the team.
I'm glad that Hall has signed but agree with the general sentiment, we need 2 specialist props.
Can you explain to me just what is a "specialist prop" these days. I am old enough to remember when props had a key role in the scrums, but scrums are pretty meaningless these days.I'm glad that Hall has signed but agree with the general sentiment, we need 2 specialist props.
Is a specialist prop a player who will run at the opposition at full speed (like running into a wall!!!) for 20 minutes and maybe have an offload too? Do they have to be 18 stone or could someone of say 14 -17 stone who is fearless, can tackle and a good ball handler, carry out the role just as effectively?
The coaching/commentating fraternity call them 'middles' which backs up your point Frank!
There is also a place these days for a 'middle' who can use his strength and technique to get a quick ptb rather than dragging his tackler another metre up the field!
RU do try to make a place for bulky props simply by pretending that the ball goes into the pack square!!!!In their game the props squeeze penalties.
@frankg don't think it exists in the modern game ...but there's a huge difference between a bread and butter prop such as Murray and a shoe in couldn't break a paper bag such as bent ....the drop off is gigantic during a game ...I genuinely can't think of another championship club that consistently plays back rowers at prop...and it's most likely the main reason our pack on numerous occasions got absolutely battered and couldn't get field position....you need balance in a squad ...were always overloaded with back rowers ...say we start the season with current forward options and Murray gets injured...we're instantly into the territory of chapelhow and bent or chapelhow and Lawton ....the better teams will batter us ...you need that grunt
@frankg over 6 foot tall, over 17 stone, naturally big and powerful. Basically a big bloke. Not a massive skill set, run hard in a straight line, leg drive for meters after contact. Hard tackler who can stop the oposition dead in it's tracks and bring the ball up when stuck in the 20 meter zone making the hard yards.
Ability to offload a bonus but not essential. Passing ability again basics required but just run it in hard and let others worry about creativity. That for me is a modern prop. Luke Thompson, Tom Burgess, Alex Walmsley those kind of players.
Hall I think is a decent player and a squad option which we need.
Totally agree two big props and a centre needed in addition. Also, hopefully we can see the best out of McWhirter and Maizen after a proper pre-season training with our squad.
Moreover, need to remember if Bradford, York and London go up as rumoured, with uncertainty over Salford and Featherstone, we shouldn't have that much of a disparity in what we are spending compared to say Halifax or Doncaster surely?